Newsletter #751

Not much to report from this fair footballing City of ours, apart of course from our national team’s last minute qualification for the World Cup on Saturday.

Tonight’s issue sees Ken’s diary, opinion on Paulo’s future, our promising U17’s, news on our mystery player, moaning fans, a why blue (there must be hundreds more out there folks!) and the usual requests and humour. Sit back and get yourself a glass of something suitable, Goats do Roam perhaps.

City are back in action on Wednesday night in the 3rd round of the Worthington Cup, followed by our next league game against our friends Stockport County on Saturday.

Next game: Birmingham City, home, 7.45pm Wednesday 10 October 2001 (WC 3rd round)


8 October:
MIke Summerbee scored at Tottenham in 1966 but City lost 2-1. Young and Lee scored when they won by the same score vs. Newcastle in 1969. Peter Barnes and Dennis Tueart won it in another 2-1 at home to Arsenal in 1977. In 1991 City played at Chester in the League Cup 2nd round second leg, winning 3-0 on the night and 6-1 on aggregate.

9 October:
Tommy Booth made his début in a 1-1 draw at home to Arsenal in 1968. Back in 1897 the 3-0 defeat of Grimsby was City’s 7th win in a row to start the season – the run ended the next Saturday with a draw at Newton Heath (who later changed into some other team).

10 October:
5-1 vs. Preston at Deepdale in 1959, including a Billy McAdams hat-trick.

11 October:
It’s Rodney Marsh’s birthday (1944). A 3-3 draw with Man U****d in 1919. Left-half Frank Knowles had his first game for City. His second was a week later, also against the Reds (teams were continuing the wartime practice of playing the return games on the following Saturday) and these were the only two he ever played. In 1961 City won 4-3 in a friendly at home to Torino, who had (I think) Denis Law in the Italian side.

12 October:
City played a friendly with Burnley – in Dublin – in 1962, a 1-1 draw. Peter Barnes played his first game at Burnley in 1974, City losing 2-1. There was a 6-3 win at Plymouth in 1988 in the League Cup. A hundred years ago today City’s 1-0 win over Bolton was their first victory of the season, after five defeats out of five.

13 October:
Shrewsbury 1 City 0 in 1984, Division Two. City 0 Burnley 1 in 1956 was the Blues’ sixth straight defeat, and in five of the six they hadn’t scored. And in 1894 three City players – A. Wallace, M. Calvey, and T. Little, all forwards – were transferred to Baltimore in the USA. Mr Little can’t have liked it very much, or maybe they didn’t like him, because he was back on City’s books by November and was playing in the team again in the 1895-96 season.

14 October:
Francis Lee’s first game for City, a 2-0 win at home to Wolves in 1967. Gary Owen scored both goals in the 2-0 win over Coventry in 1978. And the first game under floodlights at Maine Road took place, City 6 Hearts 3 in 1953.

Kenneth Corfield (


Went to watch this midweek at Ashton Gate. Enjoyable game, despite the numerous “anklebiters” – as a friend described them – on freebies. Final score 3-2 to England, against a Spanish team apparently unbeaten so far in this year’s U17’s competitions.

Man of the match went to our very own Lee Croft. The other regular (or so I am led to believe) City player, Dorryl (sic) Prophett, was not in the squad – injured perhaps? – but Lee Croft was deservedly made Man of the Match. He played the first hour or so on the right side of midfield; and the last half hour more or less as an out and out right wing. What was apparent was that we have here a very promising footballer; good all round skills, good on and off the ball; he set up the first goal and was at the start of the move (this back, in Colin Bell mode, on the edge of our own box) that led to the second goal. Well built – you would not believe that most of the team were only 16, as they all looked to be about 18 – and pacy.

So – fingers crossed that we have here a player who continues to progress, as he will be a significant member of our squad in 2 or 3 years, on current showing.

Jeremy Poynton (


Anyone else suspicious about this story, or am I just an old cynic? Got to go to Spain to get a second opinion from a Doctor who speaks Spanish? I can’t help thinking it’s just a cover-up for more changing room tantrums and a possible transfer abroad.

I hope I’m wrong because the Wanchope/Banarbia (or Banana-by according to Peter Barnes on GMR last week) combination looks magic.

Graeme Nicholson (


I was very interested to hear of Scott Turton’s problems with moaning fans. They have been the bane of my supporting life, so I have given some thought to the matter.

How is it for example that they nearly always sit behind you? Folk in front seem to be enjoying the match and even having a bit of a laugh now and then. When it all gets too much and you decide to try a new stand or seat, there they are again, and again the folk in front seem to be having an entertaining time.

I think the answer is that these people are such a pain that frequently the fans in front of them move away, either to new seats, or find something less unpleasant to do with their Saturday afternoons, like shopping or something! So when the unsuspecting Scott T asks if there are any seats available there is a high chance that they will be in front of similarly moaning minnies.

If there are any budding psychologists out there looking for a subject for a Ph.D. thesis they could look at what makes the moaners enjoy being so miserable. The ones behind me moaned continually throughout the promotion seasons!

Donald Couper (


Re – “I think I’ll try Platt Lane next year for a bit of peace and quiet…” (to avoid whinging morons).

My daughter came to her first and only match at Maine Road and we were in the Platt Lane, just in front of a foul-mouthed whinger, complete with missus backing him up. Admittedly it was the Bury 1-0 home defeat, but everyone eventually ganged up on him. They’re everywhere. She now claims to be a Liverpool supporter.

Re: Ivor Broadis – “I think the last time I saw him was in a newsagent’s shop on Wilmslow Road that he may have owned”

Hang on a mo – George Hannah had a newsagents on Wilmslow Road in Fallowfield…

Steve Parish (


I’m quite sure Bill Buffam’s enquiry about Alan Black – the cornet-playing ex-Sky Blue footballer in the USA – must have been Andy Black, the Scots inside-forward who played for us from 1946 to about 1950. I recall no other Black from that time, and I’d have remembered if there were.

He was a canny player- typical Scottish inside forward – and clever on the ball. Scored quite a few goals as I recall, and was one of my favourite inside forwards pre-Ivor Broadis (yes, he was great!) and Bobby Johnstone and Don Revie (both great too!). Andy, like so many fine players, had their careers messed up by the war but he was a fine City player and I’m glad to hear that, in 1994 at least, he was still making sweet music, albeit off the pitch!

Chris Wiseman (


Bill Buffam (MCIVTA 750) asked for confirmation regarding an ex-City player he had met in the States in 1994.

It would appear the guy he met was probably Andy Black, not Alan. He was born in Stirling in 1917 and played three times for Scotland prior to the Second World War whilst with Hearts. He played in four further wartime internationals before joining City in 1946.

He was indeed an inside left although he also played at inside right and centre forward. He was City’s top scorer in 1947-48. In all he played 146 games for City scoring 52 goals before he left for Stockport in 1950.

John Clancy (


I think I may be able to clarify Bill Buffam’s query regarding the cornet playing ex-Blue ‘Alan’ Black, from around 1946. His name was Andy Black, he was Scottish, and was a gifted player who scored a lot of goals for City 1946-ish.

Peter Haigh (


Re: Alan Black – yes I remember him, correct name Andy Black. City brought him down from Scotland, don’t know which Scottish team.

I have a photo of the City team that won promotion in 1947 with Andy Black in the side. Saw him play many times with the likes of Swift, Sproston, Barkas, Smith, Head (Alec) and many others. Fond memories of an exiled Blue!

Jim Shields (


As some of you probably know by now I am Deputy Editor of Food & Wine Magazine, Ireland’s leading publication for gluttons and dipsos.

The wonderfully-named Goats Do Roam Rose (can’t find the accent) was tasted and tested in our rose tasting in the July/Aug edition – I made sure I hung on to the spare bottle (for photographic purposes of course!) afterwards. The wine was rated 3.5 out of 5, pretty good for a budget bottle – a wine costing over twice as much only scored 2.

Tasters’ comments included: “packs a very flavoursome punch”, “dry and quite refreshing” – witness his performance on the club website Q&A and best of all – “a refreshingly clean finish”. Spot on.

I’m sure I’ve tasted a Goats do Roam red as well – that would be quite a contradiction in terms!

Suggest you might try Oddbins – they sell it here in Dublin and as they import all their wines direct from the UK they probably have it in their branches.

Anyone who gets the taste for wines with punning titles should try the brilliant Randall Grahm/Bonny Doon website at:

CDOS (City, Drunk or sober), Ernie Whalley (


Manchester City’s stadium is emerging as the likely stage for local boy Ricky Hatton’s clash with Belfast battler Eamonn Magee. Hatton, unbeaten in 25 bouts, will be making the third defence of his WBU light-welterweight crown at Manchester’s MEN Arena on October 27.

Commonwealth champion Magee, who is now number four in the WBC ratings, will also be on next month’s 14-bout show. Hatton and Magee could meet in the summer. Hatton vs. Magee could rival the 40,000 attracted to Old Trafford for Chris Eubank vs. Nigel Benn in October 1993.

Top promoter Frank Warren admitted last night: “I have already opened talks with Manchester City chairman David Bernstein.”

Stockport-born Hatton is encouraging his manager-promoter Warren to clinch Maine Road as the venue and he said: “I was an apprentice at City – but boxing had to come first. I am a number one City fan. Kevin Keegan is going to take us back to the Premiership first time. I’ve got a hospitality box at Maine Road to enjoy that big moment. Then I’ll take care of ‘Magee The Mouth’.”

Magee, with only two controversial losses on his 23-fight professional record, retorted: “Never mind where we meet, Manchester, Belfast or London, there will be only one winner – me. I’ve never been on the deck, and it will take a better scrapper than Hatton to put me there.”

Yeh! Right!

Courtesy of

Stuart Wells (


Can any London-based Blues out there tell me if there is a pub in which you congregate to watch televised City games? I used to go to Terry Neil’s, but I believe that this is now defunct. Any suggestions?



If you have a ‘Virgin’ phone, you can use the ‘Virgin Extras’ facility to have half-time and full time scores sent to your ‘Virgin Mobile’; they will also advise of the current league placing of your team after any games they may have played. You can also have an international team’s results sent as well as your club side.

This is a free service but only available if you have a ‘Virgin’ mobile.

Steve Stansfield CTID (


In response to Janet’s article in MCIVTA 750, I would like to ask why Janet has not mentioned the MCFC Fans’ Committee? The Fans’ Committee meets every month at Platt Lane where all fans are welcome to discuss issues related to themselves as fans. Be it the pies are too cold, they can’t get out of the stadium easily or they want to ask something about the new stadium – all these issues can be discussed. Then a week later, some of those who attended Platt Lane will get the chance to raise these issues before the powers that be at Maine Road: Chris Bird, Bernard Halford, Barry Pollen, Peter Fletcher etc.

This is probably one of the easiest ways in which fans can put forward a view or question, and the club actually give a response to it, and it doesn’t involve buying shares in the club, which some of us can’t afford to do. When BSkyB bought a share in the club, some of the Fans’ Committee were invited to meet Mr Bernstein to discuss with him the implications of the investment. The Fans’ Committee has also been involved in the development of the new stadium, the overhaul of the ticket office, changes in matchday procedure etc.

If you want to be a part of this, go to: You can just email a question or issue and we’ll raise it at a meeting.

A supporters’ trust may be a financial way of securing a voice with a club, but at Man City we’ve already got one that doesn’t cost you a penny, why not use it?

Dave Scally (


I bought The Pogues’ CD “Peace and …. “ – something or other I forget, this week, which has a cracking song on it called Blue Heaven, with a belting chorus that I think should be heard on the terraces at The Academy of Football.

I have adapted the words a little, but here goes with my misplaced bitter rendition:

In my Blue heaven there’s a bottle of Blue champagne,
Bathed in the moonlight it takes away the pain,
The pain I feel for sad United fans with no self esteem,
Who buy into an empty sugar coated dream,
Why don’t they support their local team?
Have pride like a City fan of Manchester! of Manchester!

It kind of fits, but the first couple of lines have a great lick to them!

Edwin Cooke (


Hoppy from BV here. Born in 1962, I was too young for the 1966 glory but I was playing footy from the age of five. I lived in the 60’s tower blocks in Offerton, Stockport. I was little Andy on the 3rd floor, big Andy lived on the 11th floor. We played football round the garages every day, as you did in those days.

My dad and brother were big Reds and I was following suit when my mum took me to a shop in Stockport to get a Munchen top, only to find that the man had one shirt in stock: Everton! At the tender age of five I said “that’s an Everton top” but it was still purchased.

I remember wearing it and it looked good with the round white collar and the dark blue shirt. Not many kids had tops in those days.

A bloke who fiddled with cars asked my old man if he could take me and big Andy to Maine Road; my dad was working nights at the time. My dad said yes.

City were tops in those days and being a rebel I revolted.

Big Andy’s favourite player was Colin Bell and mine was Neil Young. Bell scored first and I was happy but gutted, then Nellie scored, we won 2-1 vs West Brom on 4th October 1969.

It was close but, mufc or Everton nearly got me. Thankfully it didn’t happen.

‘Nuff said. CTID.

Andy a.k.a. Hoppy (


Recent results from 5th October 2001 to 7th October 2001 inclusive.

7 October 2001

Sheffield Wednesday   0 - 0  Sheffield United      29,281

5 October 2001

Grimsby Town          0 - 2  Rotherham United       6,662

League table to 07 October 2001 inclusive

                             HOME          AWAY        OVERALL
                    P  W  D  L  F  A  W  D  L  F  A  W  D  L  F  A  GD Pts
 1 Wolves          10  2  2  0  6  4  5  1  0 14  5  7  3  0 20  9  11  24
 2 Burnley         11  3  1  1 16 11  4  0  2 11  7  7  1  3 27 18   9  22
 3 West Brom A.    10  4  0  2  8  2  2  1  1  6  5  6  1  3 14  7   7  19
 4 Norwich City    10  5  0  0 10  2  1  1  3  3 11  6  1  3 13 13   0  19
 5 Crystal Palace   9  4  0  1 15  5  2  0  2 10 11  6  0  3 25 16   9  18
 6 Manchester City 10  4  0  1 14  6  2  0  3 13 14  6  0  4 27 20   7  18
 7 Portsmouth      11  3  0  2 11  8  2  3  1 10  8  5  3  3 21 16   5  18
 8 Bradford City   10  4  0  2 18 11  1  2  1  4  4  5  2  3 22 15   7  17
 9 Coventry City   10  2  1  2  6  5  3  1  1  7  4  5  2  3 13  9   4  17
10 Wimbledon       11  1  3  1  9  8  3  1  2 12  7  4  4  3 21 15   6  16
11 Nottm Forest    10  4  1  0 10  4  0  2  3  1  4  4  3  3 11  8   3  15
12 Grimsby Town    12  2  2  2  5  6  2  1  3  9 15  4  3  5 14 21  -7  15
13 Millwall        10  3  0  1  9  3  1  2  3  5  9  4  2  4 14 12   2  14
14 Birmingham City 10  3  0  2 10  5  1  2  2  6 10  4  2  4 16 15   1  14
15 Gillingham      10  3  0  2 13  6  1  1  3  4  9  4  1  5 17 15   2  13
16 Preston N.E.    10  2  2  1  8  4  1  2  2  4 10  3  4  3 12 14  -2  13
17 Sheff. United   11  1  3  2  7  9  1  3  1  4  5  2  6  3 11 14  -3  12
18 Watford         10  3  2  1 13  9  0  0  4  1  8  3  2  5 14 17  -3  11
19 Crewe Alex.     10  3  1  2  4  7  0  1  3  5 11  3  2  5  9 18  -9  11
20 Barnsley        11  2  3  1  9  9  0  0  5  1 12  2  3  6 10 21 -11   9
21 Sheff. Wed.     11  0  3  2  4 10  1  2  3  5 10  1  5  5  9 20 -11   8
22 Rotherham Utd.  11  0  3  2  5  9  1  1  4  6 11  1  4  6 11 20  -9   7
23 Stockport C.    10  0  1  3  4  8  1  2  3 11 14  1  3  6 15 22  -7   6
24 Walsall         10  1  2  2  3  6  0  1  4  5 13  1  3  6  8 19 -11   6

With thanks to Football 365


[0] MCIVTA Addresses

Articles (Heidi Pickup) :
News/rumour (Michael Leafield) :
Subscriptions (Geoff Donkin) :
Technical problems (Paul) :

Comments concerning this FAQ should be sent to David Warburton using the address:

[1] MCIVTA Deadlines

Deadlines for issues are nominally Monday and Thursday evenings.

[2] MCIVTA Back Issues and Manchester City Supporters’ home page is the unofficial Manchester City Supporters’ home page. Created in 1994, it is the longest running of the Manchester City related web sites. Back issues of MCIVTA are also hosted on the site.

[3] Club Web Site

The official club web site can be found at

[4] Supporters’ Clubs

Manchester City FC recognises three supporters’ clubs: The “Official Supporters Club” (; the “Centenary Supporters’ Association” ( and “The International Supporters’ Club” (

[5] Fans’ Committee

The Fans’ Committee operates as an interface between supporters and the club. It has its own website, containing info about forthcoming meetings as well as minutes from previous gatherings.

[6] City of Manchester Stadium Progress/Web Cam

The latest information regarding the progress of our new home can be found at

[7] Match Day Broadcasts

Live match commentaries and archives of games, reports and interviews can be found here: An alternate live commentary service, hosted by Yahoo, is located at: GMR Saturday Sport is also available live online between 1-3pm, and 4.45-6pm at

[8] 01/02 Season Match Day Theme Tune

The music the teams run out to at Maine Road this season is “Nightmare”, by Brainbug, and is available on the Positiva label.

[9] Acknowledgements

Thanks go to John Arnold for providing the information regarding match day music and to Ian Bell for pointing out the alternate live match commentary service.

The views expressed in MCIVTA are entirely those of the subscribersand there is no intention to represent these opinions as being thoseof Manchester City Football Club, nor of any of the companies anduniversities by whom the subscribers are employed. It is not inany way whatsoever connected to the club or any other relatedorganisation and is simply a group of supporters using this mediumas a means of disseminating news and exchanging opinions.

[Valid3.2]Heidi Pickup,

Newsletter #751