Newsletter #1066

Another poor draw tonight as we threw away a game we should have won in the first half to struggling Norwich. Tonight we have opinion on the way forward, recent results and individual performances, together with the usual requests.

Next game: Manchester United, away, 4.05pm Sunday 7 November 2004 (TV)



Kevin Keegan was disappointed with the performance of his senior players, but I was doubly disappointed. Disappointed because the League Cup will represent City’s only chance of silverware for the far foreseeable future, yet we “rest” players such as Dunne, James and McManaman. Unless he was injured, Steve McManaman should have been forced to play in that game. As for Sinclair and Negouai, they have reached their respective nadirs, and hopefully they have played their last game for the first team. Negouai made his first appearance in 14 months, coming on as a substitute, yet was replaced within 15 minutes, allegedly nursing a damaged hamstring.

What can we say about Robbie Fowler? Without wishing to sound like a record with the needle stuck, his arrival at the club coincided with the downturn in spirit and fortune, and the sight of Fowler in a Manchester City shirt was a contributing factor to me ending my unbroken 327 match run. Why should I waste my hard-earned money lining the pockets of a mercenary who seems to have no empathy with anybody at the club?

I believe there is no chance of reversing the current apathy until we rid ourselves of the overpaid, over-the-hill spongers. There are exceptions, with Nicolas Anelka and David James showing the commitment we expect. The once inspirational and dynamic Kevin Keegan now has a lassitude that suggests his tenure has almost run its course. I am all in favour of giving youth a chance, and in this match Nedum Onuoha and Jonathan D’Laryea (his profile has been added to the site) became joint 1042nd débutants for City, with Paddy McCarthy appearing on the bench for the first time.

For the record, Fowler’s goal was his 200th goal in club football.

My other disappointment lies with those within the club who decided to set the ticket prices for the game. At £25 for adults (£10 concessions), and with the game live on Sky, which numpty thought this was ever going to be a sell-out? Whatever happened to “Supporting Our Supporters”, “The Best Fans In The Land, In All The World”? With Arsenal fielding their third team, an appallingly low crowd of 21,708 meant an atmosphere more akin to an exhibition match; hardly likely to inspire the players or supporters.

The accounts are due out, and with another loss likely; it is time for the Chairman and Board to initiate a major review of the club, both on and off the pitch.

Line-up: Waterreus, Mills, Onuoha, Distin, Thatcher, Flood, D’Laryea (B. Wright-Phillips, 79), Sinclair (Negouai, 69 [Jordan, 83]), Sibierski, Fowler, S. Wright-Phillips. Unused Subs: Ellegaard, McCarthy.
Bookings: None. Goal times: 0-1 (van Persie, 78) – 0-2 (Karbassiyoon, 91) – 1-2 (Fowler, 94). Crowd: 21,708. Ref: Walton.

Steve Kay <steve(at)>


I had nothing better to do, so I thought I would bore people with a “half term” report.

James: No better stopper in the country, I can forgive the flaps. I like the way he has bonded with the fans, especially after he was dropped as England ‘keeper. I think he has found his spiritual home and that’s what we need, players who play for us.

Mills: Strong, solid, no nonsense and gets forward; the more the opposing fans boo him, the more I like him.

Dunne: I thought he was good when he was on the p**s, but now I think he is in the top elite of the Premierships defenders, and I can’t believe he is never subject to “transfer rumours”.

Distin: Against Chelsea Looked like the player that was voted player of the year a couple of years ago. Maybe playing with good defenders is making him a better player.

Thatcher: Reserved opinion, but has been steadily improving. I think he could be something good, the back four seem to be thriving off each other.

SWP: We all know that he is going to be top class, but now so does everyone else. Teams used to put 2 defenders close on him, but now they put one defender close, and another marking the space in front of him, so he finds it harder to pass a player and run. I think he has to make that last step up for him to become a true great, but I think he will do it.

Sun Jihai: Probably found his true position against Chelsea, only to be cruelly injured. Athletic, strong on the ground and in the air, and quick thinking, get well soon son.

Bosvelt: Doesn’t appear to achieve much, plenty of commitment, which we like, but I think we can do better.

Sibierski: I like this guy, but I think there is much more to come from him. I much prefer him as an attacker working behind the strikers. good attitude, never hides.

Macken: This guy is hungry like the wolf, will never be accused of lacking commitment; when the goals start coming they won’t stop.

Anelka: Pure class; I don’t care if the guy never smiles. I think he gets other players to move up a notch because of the respect he commands from them.

Macca: Good at buying houses.

Francis: He used to play for England didn’t he?

Fowler: Anelka/Macken, Fowler/Macken, ok. Fowler/Anelka should never be seen on the pitch at the same time, they just don’t complement each other, just as he and Owen didn’t. As to Fowler himself, I think he was ruined as a player when Liverpool sold him; I think he thought he was there for life. It’s time for him to re-invent himself; hopefully we will see the “new, improved Robbie” soon, although after the Arsenal match, don’t call us Robbie, and we won’t call you!

Barton: I wasn’t mad on him, I thought he was maybe another Michael Brown, promising but not likely to achieve that promise, but this season he has shown a lot more maturity and is looking a more complete player.

Keep the faith.

Phil <xphillee(at)>


I am writing this before we take to the field against Norwich. After a Pompey pal phoned me from Fratton Park on Saturday after the Rags were beaten 2-0, I reasoned that 3 points against Norwich will leave City trailing Unitd by 3 points. As our goal difference is more or less similiar, we have the opportunity of beating the forces of darkness next Sunday at the Swamp and overtaking them in the Premiership.

Now I know that we are the unofficial world champions at tripping up but I reckon it’s about time we went on some kind of a run. United are in a shambles and Fergie’s big focus is still to pour scorn on the Arsenal game and “soupgate”. United have a Champions’ league game this week and once we have dealt with Norwich (please do not let us down!), we have 6 days to focus on the derby while the Rags have 4 days.

So all that’s left is for Keegan to be a man and play our best 11. Depending on the Norwich game, that may mean dropping Fowler for good and bringing in BWP for his début. That may mean bringing on Willo Flood instead of “Our Trev”. They may be kids but at least they will try.

So if the City that turned up against Chelsea reinvents itself, we may be top dogs in Manchester this Sunday.

Go on City, give us all something to cheer about.

Michael Jenkins <Jenkscity1(at)>


Dear Mancunian friends,, a very interesting website about Italian and international football, writes today about a possible arrive of ex-Chelsea Petit at KK’s court from January 2005.

Well, if French midfielder would be physically OK, it should be a great thing looking at his new performances for our glorious colours. But unlucky for him (and for us too!) many sports media hardly doubt whether he is enough able to play like at his past high levels.

Why doesn’t KK try to give more chances to our clever Academy boys? No money, and we can make a reason of it, but no illusions too!

If KK and his staff wish to catch new players with injuries or bad adventures on their shoulders, I think this shall be the wrong way to do!

However, I’ll see the Norwich home game on Sky Italian channel next Monday night: fingers crossed and, of course, Forza Magico City!

Renato Tubére <r.tubere(at)>


In the US the Boston Red Sox have just won the World Series (I can never understand why they call it that – but that’s another story) after 86 years. They have had their chances since then, yet always managed to mess it up at the vital moment. Finally this year they did it, and in style. They were down and out, seeming to be losing, losing the 4th game of a seven game semi-final series against their arch enemies, the New York Yankees, which would give New York a straight 4-0 win. Somehow Boston pulled themselves up from the dead, won that game and the next three to win the semi-final series 4-3, and then swept the final 4-0.

Why am I telling you all this? Firstly because the New York Yankees have a marketing deal with a certain team from Stretford, so it was good to see them lose a series that was theirs for the taking. Mainly though to tell us all that we should never give up hope. Eventually the wheel will come round full circle, and City will win trophies again. Let’s just hope that it doesn’t take us as long as the Boston Red Sox!

George Alexander (<cymruisrael(at)>


We all have learned of the big debt the club are in, it’s been common knowledge for sometime. The question is: what are the club trying to do about it apart from cutting corners with the players’ earnings and no new signings? Of course, we as fans are upset by some of the club’s signings; I will not name players, for City supporters are intelligent and don’t need reminding.

Some things the club should be doing.

  1. Searching for a big name sponsor to use its name for the stadium. Fanshave several names for it now, i.e. COMS, Eastlands, Blue Camp, etc. A shortnew name might be a good idea (as long as it’s by a decent company). Weonly have to look at what Arsenal has achieved by naming their new stadiumEmirates Stadium. Bolton have Reebok, it’s a common thing in the USA forstadiums to be named from sponsors for big extra revenue. If theManchester Council have objections it must be pursued with an aggressiveapproach or they will not have great tenants; if they want their money inthe future City must have a very good team playing in the Premier League togive it guarantees [we can’t do this Ernie, the stadium is not ours – Ed].
  2. Manchester City must sell their image to prospective investors, send outinvitations, don’t wait for investors to knock on the door.
  3. Have a pre-season tour to the USA or other countries to sell its image;playing against 2nd Division sides in pre-season does nothing for City’simage. Playing with the elite makes City elite, or it’s the opposite; youbecome part of a lower image.
  4. Kevin Keegan’s biggest mistake: telling the world “I will stay until theend of my contract”; he has only been honest by telling all his doubtersthe truth, but by doing so has left the club in doubt of its manager in thefuture. Kevin Keegan has made remarks that Stuart Pearce will take overfrom him so as to try and build up some stability; I feel that StuartPearce needs to get some experience with a smaller club first beforemanaging a club like City. Besides, one hears that he keeps applying for amanager’s job, the latest Leicester City, so he could be off if the job camealong. I wish him well. So City have got to start looking for KK’sreplacement now, so that prospective players will know who they will beplaying for. I had always wished that KK would have a change of heart, buthe has stated so many times with his honesty that he will leave at the endof his five year contract. He should never have said that, even if he knew itto be true.
  5. If certain senior players are not giving 100%, stop playing them. Waitingfor them to start playing for City with passion has now become a joke, handthe jobs over to the deserving youngsters; at least they will play outtheir hearts for the cause.
  6. Salesmanship is wanted at City, its Stadium, its young players for thefuture, but most of all its fan base (who desperately deserve better).Start selling the club with a passion and aggression right now. Where isthe salesmanship? The extra revenue is needed, the team have left the clubdown badly with no cup runs.

Ernie Barrow <britcityblue(at)>


We have had debates on whether Kevin Keegan should go; I would like to know when he actually arrived, because whatever your opinion of him, the bottom line is he has taken this club nowhere near the level this club should be at.

When he finally leaves, no doubt it will be claps all round for the effort he has put in, but let’s all be honest, anybody with a decent football brain managing a pub team would have had better results.

An absolute disgrace considering his experience, and his desire to play has-beens says everything. Now we have the rags on the horizon, God help us.

Gary Sullivan <gary(at)>


Call the Carling Cup what you like (Milk Cup, Tin Pot Cup), it was the only chance we had of any glory this season, and a possible European spot next year. It’s all very well the team upping a gear and battling when we play the big guns such as Arsenal (A team), Chelsea, Newcastle etc. but if we are just going to play park type football against the vast majority of teams then we will go nowhere.

The comments about senior pros from KK and other readers are spot on. If they were paid on a productivity scheme they’d all be on income credit! If the players truly had any form of self esteem they would do what they are paid to do, and wear the blue shirt with pride.

Dave Barrow <David(at)>


Thanks for the article on Bert Trautmann. I had forgotten what year he had his testimonial. I still remember some of the game; I think Denis Law played for the Blues and the Reds and the game had be called off early because what started as one kid coming onto the pitch for an autograph ended up as a mob scene in the goalmouth.

I took a little time off school the next day to bike to Maine Road from Bramhall to line up with a bunch of other kids for Bert’s autograph. I was the last in line and Bert asked me if I wanted my Testimonial programme signed. All the programmes had been sold out when I arrived the night before, so he went to his car (a VW Beetle as I recall), got a programme from a box on the back seat and signed it for me. That programme became the pride of my collection, the whole of which was unfortunately discarded after I left for Canada in 1972.

Jim Ranson – Williams Lake, BC <philr(at)>


I’m grateful to Alex Channon for his kind words in MCIVTA 1065, but I’ve not “taken on the rôle of taking the Fans’ Committee forward”. Having been in touch with Alistair Mackintosh on another topic, I’d asked what was happening about the Fans’ Committee, and learned that it needed someone else to co-ordinate it now that Stephen Knott is working for the club, and the club does want it to be fan-run and therefore have some independence.

So I volunteered (a) to circulate those on Stephen Knott’s email list for the Committee to see whether people did still want it, then (b) to fix a date for an meeting (November 11th, 7.15 p.m. at the club).

I’ve been happy to call that meeting (and perhaps call it to order on the night) but beyond that it’s up to the meeting how to proceed (on the night and in the future). I might suggest that calling it a “committee” is a bit misleading, as it implies a constitution and elections, whereas it’s open to any Blue who wants to attend. Then, a small delegation meets in the daytime with club officials (often including the Chairman and Chief Exec) soon afterwards to convey the points made (and eventually report back).

Obviously, at its simplest, there’s a meeting for all, some of those present then meet with club officials, and then the next meeting hears the report (or we all see the result of changes before that). If people want minutes circulated, it takes a bit more organising, and people to do it.

There’s a lot to be said for remaining “ad-hoc” rather than having a constitution and elections to posts that nobody really wants to fill, but some may feel it’s better to have it on a more formal footing. I don’t personally have a preference, but just took the initiative on at least getting a meeting!

Steve Parish <bloovee(at)>


The next meeting for Denton OSC will be on Monday 8th November, 8pm at Denton Con Club, when our special guest will be Jim Cassell, Director of City’s Academy.

Please contact me for further details.

Heidi <editor(at)>


I’m a city fan in Adelaide, Australia. Is the derby being shown anywhere live?

James Hothersall <jsmooth_00001(at)>

REQUEST: MCFCSTATS UPDATE – Managerial section update.

The “Manager” section has been completely revamped and updated, and now contains detailed profiles of all the Ardwick and City managers who have covered the 44 managerial periods in the club’s history. Over 100 hours has been spent laboriously compiling, balancing and verifying the stats and profiles in this section. Hope you enjoy browsing through this lot, and find it useful. Some of the photos used of the earlier mangers are “dodgy” to say the least. If anybody can supply better ones, please scan and email to me. Please note Heidi, your photo of Brian Horton has been included (acknowledgements shown!).

We also want to add a short summary of the City/football-related life of each manager, and would welcome any help in completing this task! If you have, or you know anybody who has already documented a brief life story of any City manager (up to 200 words), please paste into an email (my version of Word won’t open) and send them off to <info(at)>. Don’t forget to add the name of the author, as this will give just credit by appearing on the relevant page. The same applies to autographs. The site is missing autographs of every manager except Keegan, Royle, Clark, Hartford, Horton, Book, Reid, Benson, Bond, Allison, and Hart. If you can send a scanned copy of any missing ones to me, I will add to the site. Thanks in advance for any help!

There are still many unanswered or debatable questions regarding the first and last matches of each managerial reign (e.g. was the manager officially manager in the early days, or just “watching”, or if they went into the dressing room, does that mean they were in charge?), with Ernest Mangnall’s first game in charge being an example of uncertainty. Even more recently, there is debate as to whether Mercer or Allison was “team manager” from October 1971 until Mercer left the following summer. This is the main reason for the delay in updating this section, as I have been cross-referencing from several City publications, none of which give exact dates for all mangers. Seeing “left at the end of November” is very frustrating as you can imagine! I will issue a list shortly showing my understanding (upon which the managerial stats are currently based) of each manager’s first and last match in charge. If anybody can confirm otherwise, I will gladly revise the stats. In the meantime, here are some simpler ones that you may be able to help me with. Please give your source when replying.

1. Unknown middle names:
a. Thomas E. Maley
b. Harry J. Newbould
c. Ernest J. Mangnall
d. Leslie J. McDowall
e. John P. Hart
f. Anthony K. Book (have asked Tony himself, but didn’t write it down, and forgot because I had a few to drink!)
g. John F. Bond

If we have missed any middle names, please let me know.

Steve Kay <steve(at)>


I have on my car a proper City registration plate. Due to me emigrating, I am selling the registration. This is a once in a life time opportunity to purchase the registration. Are you interested? If so contact myself on 01457 850744 (Glossop).

The registration is C17Y DO; the plate reads City Do.

I need to sell before Xmas, but I will not rip off a true fan.

Mark Channing <mark(at)>


I’ve been made aware of a series of limited edition prints produced by Wendy Levy Contemporary Art in Didsbury. These are by the artist Liam Spencer and depict Maine Road at night. I presume they might be of great interest to some Blues.

These are limited editions of 500 prints taken from oil paintings by the Burnley-born artist Liam Spencer. One of the latest four prints is of The Kippax at night. These prints are, to my knowledge, the only other way to have Spencer’s work on your wall other than buying one of the oil-on-board paintings they’re taken from.

His depictions of various Manchester locations (as well as New York, Venice and other settings) are highly sought items and are becoming increasingly valuable. The Levy gallery should be able to advise you on the prices his oils now fetch. Examples of Spencer’s work are held in the Manchester Art Gallery and there are also larger works in The Lime Tree restaurant in Didsbury and the Lowry hotel.

These prints aren’t inexpensive but compared to some of the artistic takes on Maine Road that have been seen on sale in other arenas, I find the prices you would pay completely reasonable and the artistic merit far greater (my personal taste was always going to come in somewhere).

Liam Spencer has a website of his own. If you log on, you may notice a familiar and much-loved gastronomic establishment featured on his homepage:

And yes, those of you who delve further will also find that another of the Liam Spencer prints in the same series is of Old Trafford. To set the record straight, Spencer is a Burnley fan. He only painted other grounds at all because he was commissioned specifically by individuals.

This email is from Marc Starr but I am not the person you’d need to speak to. The full details of the gallery are posted below along with an email address.

Wendy Levy <wendy(at)>


31 October 2004

Bolton Wanderers      2 - 1  Newcastle United      27,196

30 October 2004

Birmingham City       0 - 1  Crystal Palace        28,916
Arsenal               2 - 2  Southampton           38,141
Charlton Athletic     1 - 2  Middlesbrough         26,031
Everton               1 - 1  Aston Villa           37,816
Fulham                2 - 0  Tottenham Hotspur     21,317
Portsmouth            2 - 0  Manchester United     20,190
West Bromwich Albion  1 - 4  Chelsea               27,399
Blackburn Rovers      2 - 2  Liverpool             26,314

League table to 31 October 2004 inclusive

                             HOME          AWAY        OVERALL
                    P  W  D  L  F  A  W  D  L  F  A  W  D  L  F   A   GD Pts
 1 Arsenal         11  4  2  0 19  8  4  0  1 12  4  8  2  1  31  12  19  26
 2 Chelsea         11  4  1  0  8  1  4  1  1  8  2  8  2  1  16   3  13  26
 3 Everton         11  3  1  2  6  7  4  1  0  8  3  7  2  2  14  10   4  23
 4 Bolton Wndrs    11  4  2  0 11  5  2  1  2  7  8  6  3  2  18  13   5  21
 5 Middlesbrough   11  2  2  1  7  6  3  1  2 12  8  5  3  3  19  14   5  18
 6 Liverpool       10  4  0  0 10  1  1  2  3  8  9  5  2  3  18  10   8  17
 7 Manchester Utd  11  3  2  0  7  3  1  3  2  4  6  4  5  2  11   9   2  17
 8 Newcastle Utd   11  3  1  1 12  7  1  3  2 10 12  4  4  3  22  19   3  16
 9 Portsmouth      10  4  1  1 11  6  0  2  2  4  6  4  3  3  15  12   3  15
10 Aston Villa     11  3  2  0  9  3  0  4  2  5 10  3  6  2  14  13   1  15
11 Tottenham H.    11  1  2  2  3  4  2  2  2  3  4  3  4  4   6   8  -2  13
12 Charlton Ath.   11  3  2  1  8  4  0  1  4  2 15  3  3  5  10  19  -9  12
13 Manchester City 10  2  1  2  6  3  1  1  3  6  8  3  2  5  12  11   1  11
14 Crystal Palace  11  2  0  3  7  7  1  2  3  5  8  3  2  6  12  15  -3  11
15 Fulham          11  3  0  3  7  9  0  2  3  5 10  3  2  6  12  19  -7  11
16 Birmingham City 11  1  3  2  4  5  0  3  2  3  5  1  6  4   7  10  -3   9
17 West Brom A.    11  1  4  1  6  8  0  1  4  3 12  1  5  5   9  20 -11   8
18 Southampton     11  1  2  2  5  6  0  2  4  3  8  1  4  6   8  14  -6   7
19 Blackburn R.    11  1  4  1  7 10  0  0  5  2 14  1  4  6   9  24 -15   7
20 Norwich City    10  0  3  2  6 10  0  3  2  3  7  0  6  4   9  17  -8   6

With thanks to Football 365

MCIVTA FAQ [v0405.01]

[1] MCIVTA Addresses

Articles (Heidi Pickup)          :
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[2] What are MCIVTA’s publishing deadlines?

Deadlines for issues are nominally 6pm, Monday and Thursday evenings bu email. Unfortunately we cannot accept email attachments.

[3] MCIVTA Back Issues and Manchester City Supporters’ home page is the unofficial Manchester City Supporters’ home page. Created in 1994, it is the longest running of the Manchester City related web sites. Back issues of MCIVTA are also hosted on the site.

[4] What is the club’s official web site?

The official club web site can be found at

[5] What supporters’ clubs are there?

Manchester City FC recognises three supporters’ clubs: The “Official Supporters Club” (; the “Centenary Supporters’ Association” ( and “The International Supporters’ Club” (

[6] Where can I find out about the fans’ committee?

The Fans’ Committee operates as an interface between supporters and the club. It has its own website, containing info about forthcoming meetings as well as minutes from previous gatherings.

[7] What match day broadcasts are available on the web?

The GMR pre and post match phone-in is available on the web at

Live match commentaries and archives of games, reports and interviews can be found at

[8] Where can I find out if City are live on satellite TV? provides a listing of Premiership games being shown on UK domestic and foreign satellite channels. Useful sites for North American viewers are,, and

[9] Do we have a Usenet newsgroup?

Yes we do: is our home on usenet. If you are not familiar with usenet, a basic explanation is available here:,289893,sid9_gci213262,00.html

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There are a number available and direct links can be found at

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Statistics for the current season are available from the club site, but for a more in-depth analysis try

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Try Wookie’s Lair:

The views expressed in MCIVTA are entirely those of the subscribersand there is no intention to represent these opinions as being thoseof Manchester City Football Club, nor of any of the companies anduniversities by whom the subscribers are employed. It is not inany way whatsoever connected to the club or any other relatedorganisation and is simply a group of supporters using this mediumas a means of disseminating news and exchanging opinions.

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Newsletter #1066