Newsletter #970

It was a case of woe, woe and thrice woe at Newcastle’s St. James’ Park on Saturday, as City slumped to their second successive 3-0 defeat. You’d hope that the Blues might have been inspired by the double boost of City fan Will Greenwood helping England win the Rugby Union World Cup, and of both my brothers attending the game, but sadly it wasn’t to be. Tonight we include: a couple of match views, some lively pieces of opinion and the continuation of the “To boo or not to boo” debate.

May I draw your attention to Gavin’s request for a pair of tickets for the Groclin game. Our regular Reserves reporter has been let down at the last minute, so can any of you out there help? Gavin’s email address and mobile number are listed below. If any Blues are attending the game in Poland, and are getting there via Berlin, Cathal has provided a comprehensive guide to the transport and the pubs of the German capital.

I’m back in the secure accommodation of the News Summary on Thursday, so please keep your contributions coming to Heidi at the usual address, <>.

Next game: Groclin, away, 3.15pm (UK time) Thursday 27 November 2003 (UEFA)


Well I must be honest I half expected it, the team somehow have lost the motivation to win, and Anelka does not know how to beat the offside trap. I am a true City fan, but because I love the game of football I do watch other teams play.

The trouble with Anelka at Liverpool was exactly the same, being offside all the time, and not timing his runs. Oh to have someone like Shearer and not Anelka; yes I mean that. And it would be very wrong of me to make Anelka the scapegoat for this game. It’s a team game and they lost to a much better team, end of story.

England’s win in the Rugby World Cup overshadowed City’s loss, so I did not feel as I would normally after a City loss (like I felt after the Leicester game).

Kevin Keegan has got to regroup and plan for one game at a time, with a big motivation matter for every game. How about paying the players for what they are worth in every game, with a bonus for extra effort, and poor effort you get nothing. City would get rich on the last games’ performances; the rest of us workers don’t get paid if we don’t show up so why should some City players?

I say no more don’t want to be too negative, after all England won today!

Come on you Blues! Ernie Barrow <Britcityblue(at)>


After the euphoria of the Rugby World Cup final win thanks, in the main, to the golden boots of Jonny Wilkinson, one team in particular was going to be inspired today weren’t they?

Who does Jonny Wilkinson play for? Why Newcastle RUFC of course. Typical City to have played Newcastle today of all days!

Doh! Lance Thomson <lnt(at)>


My issue is not the utility of booing, but my right to do so.

Now, where’s that bottle top..?

David Butler <me(at)>


To the booers, I know only too well that sometimes it’s not easy watching our beloved team not perform as they should but can you please let common sense prevail? People (and this includes footballers, regardless of how overpaid they are) respond to praise – end of story. Get behind the team; booing and whingeing never helped anyone.

CTID, Jackie <j.a.murray(at)>


I’m fed up of ‘this new ground’s got no atmosphere’ rubbish! Is it me or was Maine Road as dead as anything bar the odd game in recent years? Yes when the team played well or if we were in a “big” match, the atmosphere could be very special but I don’t subscribe to the view that Maine Road always had a great atmosphere in recent years – it didn’t.

I don’t want to go back either – it was old and it held the club back for a number of years with its restricted capacity denying thousands of fans the chance to watch City – especially since the demolition of the old Kippax stand. Let’s face it, our home form has been indifferent so far this season, in particular during our brief flirtations with the Premiership. Look back to when our home form has been good – i.e. in Division 1 etc. then you will probably recall a better atmosphere.

What’s more, it’s a new ground and everyone is still finding their feet. The team needs to find some good performances and lift the crowd – in time it will find its atmosphere and it’ll be great.

Graham Keller <gkmcfc(at)>


Inconsistency seems to have been City’s main problem for as long as I can remember – although we were rather consistently losing under Alan Ball, and Frank Clark! We appear to be no better a team than the likes of Charlton, Fulham, Southampton and Birmingham, yet we have a much more experienced squad, and some very expensive players, and of course a wonderful new stadium. We’ve changed everything about the club over the years, yet the inconsistency remains, why? Maybe in the end, it really is down to the fans! We’re still there, yes some have gone, and new fans have come along, but many of us have been on the rollercoaster that is Manchester City for a long time – we’re told we are the best in the land, but is that because we had the numbers when in the First/Second divisions? and because we have a wonderful band of 6-8 thousand that always travel (or try to)? Clearly these are things to be admired, but one thing that always comes back for discussion, is the amount City fans boo the team, and, what little noise we make at our home games. Charlton and Fulham et al, are not better teams than City, but they have smaller stadiums, and maybe that creates better intimacy between players and fans. Either way, we seem to play better away from home, driven on by that wonderful band of travelling fans everybody admires, but at home, I think we put pressure on our boys with a high expectation, which when not delivered early, leads to restlessness, and eventual booing from the fans. I have to declare my hand, that I am an exiled Blue, and concede that these views are from afar, but as an observer, and long term supporter, that’s how it seems to me.

As others have said, I also think KK has done a wonderful job at fast tracking us to top ten in the Premiership, but unless this inconsistency problem can get sorted, we’ll never make top 4, and yet we have the players and everything else to achieve such a position! I don’t think all of KK’s buys have been good, it really is looking as though Seaman was not a good move and I don’t think Sibierski is anything special. And whilst I’m about it, we’re in desperate need of a good corner taker – Tarnat’s deliveries are consistently poor.

All in all, things are so much better than a couple of years ago, and yes I know we were very consistent when winning Division 1, but overall, over decades, inconsistency seems to be the thing that has cost us.

Finally I accept that fans pay their money and take their choice, but if a team of psychologists said the team would do much better if the home fans only cheered and never booed, would anyone take notice? It’s the same thinking that says it’s better to reward a child when it is good, and take no notice when it is bad.

So I hope for more noise from home games – I do my bit, as the neighbours will vouch for, when listening on the ‘net; hope you guys fortunate to actually be there will keep doing yours.

Andy Collins <Andantino(at)>


Achtung Baby! With the return leg of the UEFA Cup second round this Thursday in Poland, many travelling Blues (at least if the trend on Blue View is to be taken as the general consensus) have selected Berlin as their stop over city for the trip. If you fit this description then I and the current Miss Berlin 2003 (a certain Miss Rösler, purely coincidentally I’m sure) extend a warm welcome to you. I’ve done a very quick and very rough guide to Berlin, which reduces the normally barely readable Berlin underground map (containing 450 odd stations) down to a bare minimum of 22 stations.

This “guide” can be downloaded at the following link: either as a PDF file (needs acrobat reader) or as a simple Excel file. It prints out (which I recommend is done in colour) onto a mere 2 pages and has been specifically designed to be completely safe for viewing by those who suffer a mortal fear of being overwhelmed by information or choice. It contains (in my opinion) the most important information you need to know, about getting from A to B (whether B is a shopping area, a drinking spot or an airport to go back home). Next to the names of the stations there’s a small note saying roughly what you’ll find should you get off at that given station. Simply read the notes on the page.

Last but not least, there are details included of two of my favourite haunts in Berlin (“The Irish Harp Pub” in West Berlin, and “The Oscar Wilde” in East Berlin), both of whom I asked, and who readily agreed, to re-screen (recorded earlier) the full TV match coverage for Blues returning to Berlin following the game. Many thanks to Darren and Martin (The Harp) and to Terry (Oscar Wilde) for putting this on! How you get to these pubs is described on the second page and the relevant underground stations are clearly marked with the MCFC crest so you should be able to find them on the map at a glance.

There will be two re-screenings, which take place in both pubs simultaneously. The first is at midnight following the game, for those returning to Berlin straight away, and the second re-screening (again in both pubs simultaneously) at 1pm on Friday afternoon, by which time you should have peeled yourself off your beds and be just about ready for breakfast, which in both establishments will cost between €2.80 and €3.50 a pint. Look forward to seeing you all there!

The link again:

Thanks to “topshelfbleu”, Nick C. for hosting this “guide” (and to all those who offered to step in and take over when I couldn’t reach the top shelf – stars all).

CTID, Cathal Whelehan <cathal.whelehan(at)>


After the first leg result, and before tickets went on sale, Groclin doubled the price of tickets for their own fans to £30 uncovered, £45 covered and £77 VIP (whatever that means). So for once the away fans are paying less than the home fans.

Iain Sellers <iain_sellers1(at)>


As other subscribers have said, I too was disappointed to find that City commentaries were now a subscription service. Anyway, I initially subscribed for one month [£3.99], expecting to have to re-subscribe this month; so I was a bit shocked to see that my credit card had been debited automatically by the service for another month’s subscription. Thing is, I actually would prefer to subscribe for a full year [£20] as this is obviously better value.

Unfortunately, I can’t find any way of either changing subscriptions, or indeed of cancelling them. There doesn’t seem to be any “Contact Us” link for If anyone understands the website better than I do, or indeed has any comments anyway, then I’d be pleased to hear from them.

Andy Collins <Andantino(at)>


Can I make a late request for Groclin Ticket(s)? I’ve been let down for two tickets big time. If anyone can help it would be much appreciated.

Many Thanks, Gavin Cooper <Blueboy(at)> Mobile: 07764-760369


I am not sure if you can help me with this query. You may not even deal with such matters, but I hope you do not mind me trying!

A group of old school friends from Caernarfon Grammar School in North Wales recently held a re-union at my home in London. One very dear friend was missing, namely Fred Owen, formerly from a small Welsh village in North Wales, Rhos Isaf.

Fred was a fanatical Manchester City supporter and we wondered if it would be possible to put a small item in your newsletter asking him, or anyone who knew him to contact me, at the email address below. We last saw Fred in 1966, but we would all dearly love to see him again.

Once again my apologies for taking up your time, but here’s hoping you can help.

All the best, Gareth Morris <morrig47(at)>


The Milton Keynes branch will be meeting on Thursday, November 27th starting at 8pm. The venue as usual is Great Brickhill Cricket Club – if you would like directions to the venue or any other information about the MK branch then please contact me.

Steve Maclean – Secretary, MCFC Supporters’ Club, Milton Keynes <stm1(at)>


Two please for United away. I know there is a very small possibility of this, but small is better than none. If you can please call me on 07736035984.

Ta, David Ford <>


Hello. I’m a Canadian Blue looking for tickets (probably 3 or 4) to the match between City and Liverpool on the 28th of December. Does anyone have information on how to get tickets for reasonable prices without becoming a member, etc.?

CTID, Andrew Shuttleworth <ashuttle(at)>


The online auction is now “live” and you can view the items available from the many Clubs, the FA and various celebs which are available to bid for by visiting the website:

Amongst the City related items kindly donated by MCFC, Doves and Dave Kilroy are signed shirts, signed programmes, original No 23 training tops and a matchday package.

For further information please email:



23 November 2003

Tottenham Hotspur     2 - 1  Aston Villa           33,140

22 November 2003

Manchester United     2 - 1  Blackburn Rovers      67,748
Birmingham City       0 - 3  Arsenal               29,588
Everton               2 - 0  Wolverhampton Wndrs   40,190
Leeds United          0 - 2  Bolton Wanderers      36,558
Leicester City        1 - 1  Charlton Athletic     30,242
Middlesbrough         0 - 0  Liverpool             34,268
Newcastle United      3 - 0  Manchester City       52,159
Southampton           0 - 1  Chelsea               32,149

League table to 23 November 2003 inclusive

                            HOME          AWAY        OVERALL
                   P  W  D  L  F  A  W  D  L  F  A  W  D  L  F   A   GD Pts
1 Arsenal         13  5  1  0 12  6  5  2  0 16  4 10  3  0  28  10  18  33
2 Chelsea         13  5  1  0 15  5  5  1  1 12  4 10  2  1  27   9  18  32
3 Manchester Utd  13  5  1  1 14  4  5  0  1 11  4 10  1  2  25   8  17  31
4 Charlton Ath.   13  2  2  2  9 11  4  2  1 11  5  6  4  3  20  16   4  22
5 Birmingham City 13  2  3  2  6  7  3  2  1  5  4  5  5  3  11  11   0  20
6 Newcastle Utd   13  3  2  2  9  4  2  2  2 10 14  5  4  4  19  18   1  19
7 Fulham          12  2  2  2 10  9  3  1  2 12  9  5  3  4  22  18   4  18
8 Manchester City 13  2  2  2 12  9  3  1  3 10  9  5  3  5  22  18   4  18
9 Liverpool       13  2  1  3  8  8  3  2  2 10  6  5  3  5  18  14   4  18
10 Southampton    13  3  1  3  5  4  1  4  1  5  4  4  5  4  10   8   2  17
11 Portsmouth     12  4  0  2 15  6  0  3  3  2 10  4  3  5  17  16   1  15
12 Tottenham H.   13  3  1  3  8  9  1  2  3  5  8  4  3  6  13  17  -4  15
13 Middlesbrough  13  2  1  4  6 10  2  2  2  5  5  4  3  6  11  15  -4  15
14 Bolton Wndrs   13  1  4  1  5  4  2  2  3  6 15  3  6  4  11  19  -8  15
15 Everton        13  3  2  2 11  7  0  2  4  4 10  3  4  6  15  17  -2  13
16 Leicester City 13  2  3  2 11  9  1  0  5  9 13  3  3  7  20  22  -2  12
17 Blackburn R.   13  2  0  4 10 11  1  2  4  8 13  3  2  8  18  24  -6  11
18 Aston Villa    13  2  3  1  6  5  0  2  5  4 12  2  5  6  10  17  -7  11
19 Wolves         13  2  2  2  6 13  0  2  5  2 13  2  4  7   8  26 -18  10
20 Leeds United   13  1  2  4  5 12  1  0  5  6 21  2  2  9  11  33 -22   8

With thanks to Football 365

MCIVTA FAQ [v0304.06]

[0] MCIVTA Addresses

Articles (Heidi Pickup) :
News/rumour (Don Barrie) :
Subscriptions (Madeleine Hawkins):
Technical problems (Paul) :
FAQ (David Warburton) :

[1] What are MCIVTA’s publishing deadlines?

Deadlines for issues are nominally 6pm, Monday and Thursday evenings.

[2] MCIVTA Back Issues and Manchester City Supporters’ home page is the unofficial Manchester City Supporters’ home page. Created in 1994, it is the longest running of the Manchester City related web sites. Back issues of MCIVTA are also hosted on the site.

[3] What is the club’s official web site?

The official club web site can be found at

[4] What supporters’ clubs are there?

Manchester City FC recognises three supporters’ clubs: The “Official Supporters Club” (; the “Centenary Supporters’ Association” ( and “The International Supporters’ Club” (

[5] Where can I find out about the fans’ committee?

The Fans’ Committee operates as an interface between supporters and the club. It has its own website, containing info about forthcoming meetings as well as minutes from previous gatherings.

[6] What match day broadcasts are available on the web?

The GMR pre and post match phone-in is available on the web at

Live match commentaries and archives of games, reports and interviews can be found at, whilst an alternate live commentary service, hosted by Yahoo, is located at

[7] Where can I find out if City are live on satellite TV? provides a listing of Premiership games being shown on UK domestic and foreign satellite channels. Useful sites for North American viewers are,, and also provides a guide to pubs in the USA showing football.

[8] What’s the music the teams run out to?

It’s actually a mix of two tracks. It starts with “O Verona” (from the motion picture “William Shakespeare’s Romeo and Juliet”) and leads in to “Barber’s Adagio for Strings (Ferry Corsten remix)” by William Orbit. The first part is available on the movie soundtrack (volume 2) and the second is included on a variety of CDs such as Kiss House Nation 2000, Galaxy Hit Mix, Cream Live, Ibiza Chill and Dance Nation 4.

[9] Do we have a Usenet newsgroup?

Yes we do: is our home on usenet. If you are not familiar with usenet, a basic explanation is available here:,289893,sid9_gci213262,00.html

[10] Do any squad members have their own web pages?

There are a number available and direct links can be found at

[11] Can I buy shares in the club?

Yes you can: Shares in Manchester City PLC are traded on OFEX. The latest prices can be on found the OFEX web site (registration required) or in the business section of the Manchester Evening News.

[12] Where can I find match statistics?

Statistics for the current season are available from the club site, but for a more in-depth analysis try or

[13] Acknowledgements

Thanks go to Damian Quinn, Stephen Webb, Roger Haigh, Martin Price, and Adrian Howarth for the Satellite TV info.

The views expressed in MCIVTA are entirely those of the subscribersand there is no intention to represent these opinions as being thoseof Manchester City Football Club, nor of any of the companies anduniversities by whom the subscribers are employed. It is not inany way whatsoever connected to the club or any other relatedorganisation and is simply a group of supporters using this mediumas a means of disseminating news and exchanging opinions.

[Valid3.2]Don Barrie,

Newsletter #970