Newsletter #767

A second half penalty (Huckerby) and goal (Goater) saw us secure all 3 points in a 2-0 victory over Grimsby on Saturday. We moved up into 4th place in the table overnight, and are now settled in 6th place after the weekend’s results.

Tonight’s issue sees match reports from Blackburn and Grimsby (thanks to Paul and Richard), Ken’s diary, opinion, requests and a couple of offers on Palace tickets.

Tomorrow sees us off to Millwall, officially supporterless, for the first of two visits to the capital this week.

Next game: Millwall, away, 7.45pm Tuesday 4 December 2001


3 December:
City beat U****d 2-1 in the League Cup semi-final first leg in 1969, with goals from Bell and Lee, Lee’s winner coming from a penalty right near the end after he’d been brought down by Ian Ure. Georgie Best had words with the referee as they left the field and knocked the ball from his hands, leading to him later getting fined by the FA. Flitcroft and Rösler gave City a 2-1 win at Ipswich in 1994, and Hartford, Royle, Tueart and Oakes scored in the 4-2 League Cup win over Mansfield in 1975. In 1955 Joe Hayes and Frank Dyson scored in the 2-2 draw at Burnley. Bobby Kennedy got City’s equalizer at home to Nottingham Forest (1-1) in 1966.

4 December:
When Mike Sheron scored at Leeds (City lost 3-2) in 1993 it was his sixth goal of the season, making him the team’s leading scorer. He was still top scorer without adding to the total when the season ended next May, probably the lowest leading total ever by a City player (Quinn had four that year before his injury and Rösler managed five when he joined City in the Spring of ’94). In 1982 on this day Tommy Caton scored twice in the 2-1 home win over Arsenal.

5 December:
Eric Nixon was sent off at home to Crystal Palace in 1987, and Steve Redmond went in goal; City lost 3-1, Paul Lake scoring. In 1973 it was City 4 York 1 in a League Cup replay, with a hat-trick from Rodney Marsh. In 1936 City beat Arsenal 3-1 at Highbury, Peter Doherty and a C. Rodger (2) getting the goals.

6 December:
Moscow Dynamo came to Maine Road to play a friendly in 1965, City winning 2-0. 1978 saw a memorable European night, too, when City beat A.C. Milan 3-0 in the second leg of the UEFA Cup (5-2 on aggregate), Brian Kidd, Asa Hartford, and Tommy Booth scoring.

7 December:
City beat Burnley 7-0 at Maine Road in 1968 as the champions found their best form, two each for Young and Bell, with Coleman, Doyle, and Lee also scoring. City lost 7-0 at Derby in 1949, in Bert Trautmann’s third game. In 1957 City beat Everton 6-2. Ken Barnes scored from three penalties and Bllly McAdams scored for the tenth game in a row, a City record. City beat Newton Heath 2-1 in 1895.

8 December:
City went to West Ham in 1973. Francis Lee scored but Trevor Brooking and an own goal by Mike Doyle gave West Ham their first win of the season. In 1956 it was City 5 Chelsea 4, a hat-trick for Bobby Johnstone and two for Joe Hayes. On Tuesday December 8 1998 a Maine Road crowd of 3,007 saw City lose 2-1 to Mansfield in the AutoWindscreen Trophy. Danny Allsop scored City’s goal and Lee Peacock got both of Mansfield’s.

9 December:
Harry Dowd played his first game in City’s goal, a 4-1 defeat at Blackburn in 1961. In 1984 City’s youth team beat Billingham 10-1 away in the FA Youth Cup. A year ago today City beat Everton 5-0.

Kenneth Corfield (


I’d like to have said how we murdered Grimsby, completely outplaying them, and us looking for dead certs for promotion. The reality though was that we had to battle against a Grimsby side that had learnt their lesson 4 weeks ago, when without really playing we gave them a football lesson. Instead of trying to play neat, passing football, they got stuck in and it was obvious that we were not as up for it as we should have been.

The starting line up was Nash, Dunne, Wiekens, Mettomo, SWP, Tiatto, Ali, Horlock, Berkovic, Goater, Huckerby and it meant we were back to 3-5-2. It’s not a formation I particularly like and it’s not one I think suits the players, though yesterday it probably did.

City had lots of first half possession, with Grimsby rarely threatening, and their crowd very subdued. City had a couple of very good chances, Goater missing one of them. Our possession though came to nothing as time and again the final ball was poor. The whole first half seemed to pass by without much real incident. The City fans though were in much better voice than away at Portsmouth a couple of weekends ago.

The second half saw more excitement, with City again having the better of things possession-wise but again the final ball wasn’t good enough. Huckerby was guilty a couple of times of going for glory rather than passing to a better placed team mate, Goater missing another good chance.

Grimsby almost took a lead they wouldn’t have deserved when they hit a post, but a minute or so later Huckerby, breaking into the box, was felled; he went down rather spectacularly but was definitely fouled. I was right behind the goal as he came into the box and he was running straight at me. The defender put an arm across him and pulled him over, at the same time trying to get the ball; he also seemed to trip him. There were some theatrics from the Grimsby ‘keeper but Huckerby kept his cool to slot the ball home. There followed an incident in which no player was booked but what looked like several punches exchanged by one of the Grimsby defenders and Huckerby as he celebrated the goal, a couple of other players also involved. Just as well Mr Rennie wasn’t in charge or we could have been watching 9 vs. 9.

Grimsby responded well to going behind and we had to suffer the usual City last 10 minutes as Grimsby threw everything forward in the search for an equaliser. They hit the woodwork again and it was a relief when Ali finally fed the Goat, and he very coolly slotted the ball home to seal the win.

A couple of observations about the City performance: Nash in goal looked confident, and the back 3 looked more confident than at any stage this season. Howey and Pearce may find it hard to get back in on this showing. I hope so! Midfield had lots of possession but finished most of it with a poor pass, disappointing when you see the quality we have in there now. Up front Huckerby was again a livewire but sometimes he’s not a team player. Goater had a good return but didn’t look 100% fit, certainly not as sharp as he can be.


Nash 7 – Looked confident all round.
Dunne 9 – My man of the match, back where he should be and possibly one of his best games for City.
Wiekens 8 – Just remember I’m not his greatest fan, but again a solid, hard-working and very competent display.
Mettomo 7 – I reckon Lucien is a really good buy; he even seems to have improved his heading in recent games, which is his one weakness. The World Cup should really help the lad.
SWP 7 – The best of the midfield for me, battles really well despite his size; he’s about as much a wing-back as Richard Dunne though – the sooner we have a right back or a right wing back the better.
Ali 6 – One of his poorer games, just didn’t seem to be able to find the killer pass.
Berkovic 6 – Worked hard and responsible for much of the possession but not his greatest game either.
Horlock 6 – Nope, not for me, where was Negouai?
Tiatto 6 – Is he still suffering from jet lag or has his injury not cleared up properly?
Huckerby 7 – Would have been 8 but he must learn to not always go for glory when others are better placed. Kept his composure for the penalty despite the antics of the Grimsby ‘keeper.
Goater 7 – Didn’t look 100% fit, not sure what he added as captain, though he is an example to the rest in the way he works for the team. Great goal!
Ref 7 – No bookings makes a change; he generally kept a low profile, which is usually a good sign. I suspect any Grimsby fans out there would disagree though.

One final thing, and you couldn’t make this one up, all the way to Grimsby, the UK’s number one fishing port, and no fish at the fish and chip shop.

Paul Stevenson (


I’m sure the walk from Darwen Road School wasn’t that long on a warm day a year last May.

However, somewhat damp, we esconsed ourselves in the highest echelon of the top tier and lo and behold, the bloody roof leaked.

Pretty large City following considering it’s the Worthington (Worthless) Cup. A night in Cardiff next May would have been great but at the end of the day, we do have more important matters.

Better make this short to meet the deadline:

We had 2 or 3 chances before the sending off incident, notably SWP who could get the nickname (was it Stuart Barlow at Everton?) – Jigsaw – gets in the box and goes to pieces. His début goal will come – keep your head up SWP, your hard work deserves the goal.

I thought Richard Dunnie was particularly good in the first half, and Ali was weaving his ways and the game even with 10 men looked to be going our way with all the chances (Ali should have done better or passed to Eyal) and Huckerby had a few good runs at their defence.

Perhaps inevitably, Blackburn scored right at the end of the first half – a ball through Wiekens’ legs, player carries on and whoops, their second chance of the first half gives them the goal the overall play didn’t merit.

I guess the second half was always going to be a struggle but I think the Blues performed credibly, with Huckerby again being the main source as we were restricted to trying to hit Blackburn on the break.

One moment in particular, a low shot from the left going towards the far corner, was pushed aside by their ‘keeper for a corner (oh no not a corner, neither the referee nor his assistants saw the obvious).

From our distant view the bookings and ultimate sending-off seemed harsh as there appeared to be worse if not as bad tackles as the newsworthy Christian’s.

Having suffered a hold- up on the Thelwall viaduct due to an accident, we arrived home just in time to get a clearer view of the bookings.

KK is right when he said that Uriah didn’t make allowances for the conditions and neither tackle (pulled shirt in the second one) was hardly life threatening or even “nasty” – poor judgement but within the letter of the law.

It did spoil what would have been a good cup tie and I think we just might have been going into the hat as we had made all the running up to that time and until half time.

Richard Cooper (


From the Telegraph: Kinkladze vs. Todd in the High Court?

Footballers, whose boots used to do the talking, are now employing lawyers to do it for them. You may remember that David Ginola engaged the services of our Prime Minister’s wife in the recent past when his manager at Aston Villa, John Gregory, seemed to link the dashing Frenchman with an F-word (Fat).

But it was the move by Georgi Kinkladze last week at Derby that achieved previously undreamed heights of litigious interference with football. The Derby player, who has not figured in their last six games, was accompanied by his lawyer for a visit to the manager, Colin Todd, to demand his restitution to first-team football. To you, it may look just like one stroppy Georgian in a snit with the gaffer; to the legal professional it looks like nirvana.

Whatever next? The ref makes a bad call and is sued for damages against a team’s failure to progress to the next round? A player gets a red card and the injured striker sues for medical damages, loss of earning, pain, suffering? The entire Kippax is carted off in a Black Maria for singing “Who’s the b*****d in the black?”

Imagine your honour in the case of “Rennie” versus “The Kippax”. My client Mr Rennie is suing for damages to the tune of £1,000,000. He is left feeling rather hurt and traumatised by the fact that they (pointing to 18,000 people crammed in the dock) had the temerity to cast severe aspersions on the validity of the marriage of Mr Rennie’s parents. I tender the plaintiff’s birth certificate and the court will see the date is after the marriage certificate.

Presumably we would countersue on the basis of lost 3 points; should this prove significant in out attempt to be promoted we would then mount a malpractice law suit for professional incompetence, dereliction of duty and generally being a tw*t. The amount asked is loss of TV earnings, gate fees, and Premiership funds. It will be interesting to see what happens in the next few years and what the FA will do over this as the legal profession of ambulance chasers gets into overdrive.

Phil Lines (


Latest Changes

Chris Killen returned from loan to Port Vale

Nick Weaver
Brian Murphy
Carlo Nash
Kevin Stuhr Ellegaard
Gerard Wiekens
Richard Edghill
Rhys Day
Danny Granville
Danny Tiatto
Andy Morrison
Steve Howey
Steven Jordan
Paul Ritchie
Laurent Charvet
Richard Dunne
Stuart Pearce
Simon Colosimo
Tyrone Mears
Steven Paisley
Paddy McCarthy
Lucien Mettomo
Joe Barton
Kevin Horlock
Terry Dunfield
Christopher Shuker
Terry Cooke
Jeff Whitley
Alfie Haaland
Dixon Etuhu
Eyal Berkovic
Ali Benarbia
Shaun Wright-Philips
Glenn Whelan
Christian Negouai
Shaun Goater
Darren Huckerby
Paul Dickov
Leon Mike
Christopher Killen
Paulo Wanchope
Alioune Toure
Gary Browne

This Year’s U-19’s

Gary Furnival (defender)
Barry Hogan (defender)
Damian Joyce  (midfield)
Andrew Tunnicliffe (forward)
David Hodgson (goalkeeper)
James Almond (forward)
Phil Gilder (midfield)
Stephen Elliot (midfield)
Daniel McTaggert
Adie Orr (forward)
Ciaron Kilheeny (midfield)
Mark Egerton
Ryan McDowall

This years U-17’s

Willo Flood
Lee Croft
Doryl Prophett
Shaun Cartwright
Richard Crawford
Adam James
Ryan McDowell
David Tickle
Quigley (goalkeeper)
Craig Smith
Bradley Wright-Philips
Jamie Tandy
Richard Harris
Danny Douglas-Pringle
Nathan D'Laryea
Karl Bermingham

Stuart Reynolds (


Footballers are known for their bizarre superstitions and it would seem that those who choose to disregard such nonsense may have to think again.

In the matchday programme for the Rotherham game it was reported that: ‘Christian Negouai has proved he is not superstitious by taking the number 13 shirt, which had been vacant since Tommy Wright left the club last season’.

This rash decision met with an all too predictable outcome. At Blackburn, Negouai received his first booking in the 13th minute and was subsequently sent off 13 minutes later for his second bookable offence.


John Clancy (


“If we don’t get promotion this season then it could be a blessing in disguise, especially looking at the past history of promoted sides” wrote Angus Jordan in MCIVTA 766.

Financially, the club’s in deep trouble if we don’t get promoted within 2 years. The players are on Premiership wages and we need Premiership money otherwise it’s the Forest solution, “everyone’s up for sale”.

Steve Parish (


Help! What is happening? For years I have supported the Blues and been the ridicule of all Rag supporters. My son is a Red, my grandson is a Red. My only hope is that they will not win the league [After this week’s results, it looks a reality! – Ed]

We need help, KK listen, we need help. We need to score goals, the Goat is out, Huckerby is, well not good enough. We need a good goalscorer! As if you didn’t know?

KK please don’t let me and all the true Blues down, get us to the top flight again. I love my Man City and always will; please, please get us out of this never-never land and back into the real world.

Harry Stokes, The Stevenage Blue (


Please note the new e-mail address. My broadband connection fell victim to the @home fiasco.

Good news and bad news this week. The good news is that City are now projected as Champions! The bad news is that for the last few weeks the number #1 team has been unable to hold onto their position. This week is especially interesting for City as they play both Millwall and Palace away. They are projected to at least draw against each so defeats away, which are normally not a big thing, would be bad this week.

Projected Final Positions results through Sunday December 02, followed by projected total points. The number in parentheses is their current league position.

01 80 Manchester City (06)
02 79 Burnley (01)
03 78 West Brom (04)
04 77 Preston (07)
05 77 Wolverhampton (02)
06 75 Coventry (05)
07 75 Norwich (03)
08 73 Birmingham (11)
09 68 Bradford (15)
10 68 Millwall (09)
11 67 Portsmouth (10)
12 65 Gillingham (14)
13 65 Nottingham Forest (13)
14 65 Watford (12)
15 63 Sheffield Utd (16)
16 62 Crystal Palace (08)
17 62 Wimbledon (17)
18 61 Crewe (19)
19 58 Sheffield Wednesday (20)
20 56 Grimsby (22)
21 54 Barnsley (23)
22 53 Rotherham (18)
23 50 Walsall (21)
24 37 Stockport (24)

What is the Geist Index?

Every week I get asked the specifics so…

You start with a premise so basic it’s silly. Every team should win its own home games. Then you add in the premise that the top 6 teams, defined as the 3 teams relegated and the 3 play-off teams remaining should at least get an away draw against the bottom 6 teams, defined as the 3 teams promoted and the 3 teams who finished 19-21 the previous year – and adjust accordingly.

What this gives you is a starting point for the top teams of 75 points, the bottom teams of 57 and the “regular” teams of 69 (23×3).

Then, as the season starts, you modify the totals assigned to each matchup. Therefore I start with City assigned 3 points for the season outcome of both games against Burnley. The assumption is that they will win at home and lose away. However, when City won at Burnley the assigned value to City vs. Burnley for the season changes to 6 for City and 0 for Burnley. The assumption is still made that City will win the return fixture at Maine Road even though it has yet to be played.

Wallace Poulter (


Anybody want 2 tickets for Crystal Palace away on Saturday – City end. Face – £19 each. Sadly can’t go now! Will post immediately or you can collect in West Yorkshire or Manchester by arrangement.

Contact Andy Carver on 07768 661755 or email me at the address below.

Andy Carver (


I have a spare ticket for the Palace game. Please contact Neal on 0797-4751079 or email at the address below.

Neal Beatty (


The County Wicklow branch of the supporters’ club are holding their 3rd annual football night out in Katie Gallagher’s, Strand Road, Bray this Friday 7th December.

Live music 9 till 12 followed by disco; all genuine football fans welcome, craic guaranteed. £5 admission; please wear your colours – even Reds are welcome. If you know anyone who will be in or around the Bray area please let them know as it’s a night everyone is assured of a warm Irish Blue night out.

Tony Macmanus (


A City fan was sitting with a United fan and a Geordie in Saudi Arabia, sharing a smuggled barrel of beer, when all of a sudden, Saudi police entered and arrested them.

They were initially sentenced to death but they contested this and were finally imprisoned for life. But, since it was a national holiday, the Sheikh decided they should be released after receiving 20 lashes of the whip.

As they were preparing for their punishment, the Sheikh suddenly said: “It’s my first wife’s birthday today, and she asked me to allow each of you one wish before your whipping.”

So the Geordie boy thought for a while and then said: “Please tie a pillow to my back.”

This was done but the pillow only lasted 10 lashes before the whip went through.

The United fan, watching the scene, said: “Please tie two pillows to my back”. But even two pillows could only take 10 lashes before the whip went through again. Before the City fan could say anything, the Sheikh turned to him and said: “As you are from the most popular city, and you are superior to your friends, you can have two wishes!”.

“Thank you, Most Royal and Merciful Highness”, The Blue replies. “My first wish is: I would like to have 40 lashes.”

“If you so desire”, the Sheikh replies with a questioning look on his face, “and your second wish?”

“Tie the united fan to my back!”

Dean Fitzpatrick (


Reading the McV web page, I was reminded of my experience of Man City. I am now 65 and a few months and have officially retired. I did live in Rosebery Street, Moss Side, and I too had only a five minute walk to Maine Road. At certain times when I was in the sick bed I could tell by the cheer I heard if City had scored a goal.

I saw my first City match at the age I think 11 years old, just before the Football League was reformed after the war.

I came to Australia in 1977 and formed a Man City Supporters’ Club. I dealt with Frank Horrocks and Les Saul and was a guest of the Club on the day we beat the Rags 5-1; perhaps we could talk at some future date and exchange views?

Alan Bouch (


Recent results from 29 November 2001 to 02 December 2001 inclusive.

2 December 2001

Wolverhampton Wndrs   0 - 1  West Bromwich Albion  27,515
Portsmouth            1 - 2  Norwich City          13,286
Barnsley              3 - 0  Sheffield Wednesday   16,714

1 December 2001

Bradford City         1 - 2  Millwall              14,148
Coventry City         3 - 1  Wimbledon             17,303
Crystal Palace        1 - 2  Burnley               18,457
Grimsby Town          0 - 2  Manchester City        7,960
Nottingham Forest     0 - 0  Watford               24,015
Rotherham United      2 - 0  Walsall                6,273
Sheffield United      2 - 2  Preston North End     16,270
Stockport County      0 - 1  Crewe Alexandra        5,308

30 November 2001

Gillingham            1 - 1  Birmingham City        8,575

League table to 02 December 2001 inclusive.

                             HOME          AWAY        OVERALL
                    P  W  D  L  F  A  W  D  L  F  A  W  D  L  F  A  GD Pts
 1 Burnley         22  7  3  1 25 15  6  1  4 17 14 13  4  5 42 29  13  43
 2 Wolves          21  5  3  3 14  8  7  2  1 19  8 12  5  4 33 16  17  41
 3 Norwich City    22  8  2  1 19  9  4  1  6 12 19 12  3  7 31 28   3  39
 4 West Brom A.    21  6  1  3 11  5  6  1  4 14 13 12  2  7 25 18   7  38
 5 Coventry City   21  6  2  3 16 10  5  2  3 11  9 11  4  6 27 19   8  37
 6 Manchester City 20  7  2  1 26 10  4  1  5 21 19 11  3  6 47 29  18  36
 7 Preston N.E.    22  6  4  1 24  9  3  5  3 13 18  9  9  4 37 27  10  36
 8 Crystal Palace  21  8  0  3 29 11  3  1  6 14 21 11  1  9 43 32  11  34
 9 Millwall        20  6  1  2 20 11  4  3  4 15 13 10  4  6 35 24  11  34
10 Portsmouth      22  6  1  4 19 15  3  5  3 15 16  9  6  7 34 31   3  33
11 Birmingham City 21  6  1  3 20  9  2  5  4 12 20  8  6  7 32 29   3  30
12 Watford         21  6  3  2 24 13  2  2  6  9 13  8  5  8 33 26   7  29
13 Nottm Forest    22  5  5  1 13  7  2  3  6 11 14  7  8  7 24 21   3  29
14 Gillingham      22  5  3  3 21 11  3  2  6 11 19  8  5  9 32 30   2  29
15 Bradford City   22  6  1  4 28 22  2  4  5 12 18  8  5  9 40 40   0  29
16 Sheff. United   22  4  4  3 17 14  2  5  4  7 13  6  9  7 24 27  -3  27
17 Wimbledon       22  3  5  3 17 15  3  3  5 19 21  6  8  8 36 36   0  26
18 Rotherham Utd.  22  4  5  2 16 15  2  2  7 12 19  6  7  9 28 34  -6  25
19 Crewe Alex.     22  4  4  3  8 13  2  3  6 12 21  6  7  9 20 34 -14  25
20 Sheff. Wed.     22  3  4  4 17 17  2  3  6  7 18  5  7 10 24 35 -11  22
21 Walsall         22  4  3  4 13 13  1  2  8 10 23  5  5 12 23 36 -13  20
22 Grimsby Town    22  3  3  5 10 16  2  2  7 11 25  5  5 12 21 41 -20  20
23 Barnsley        22  4  4  3 17 18  0  2  9  9 29  4  6 12 26 47 -21  18
24 Stockport C.    22  1  1  9  7 21  1  5  5 14 28  2  6 14 21 49 -28  12

With thanks to Football 365


[0] MCIVTA Addresses

Articles (Heidi Pickup) :
News/rumour (Don Barrie) :
Subscriptions (Geoff Donkin) :
Technical problems (Paul) :

Comments concerning this FAQ should be sent to David Warburton using the address:

[1] MCIVTA Deadlines

Deadlines for issues are nominally Monday and Thursday evenings.

[2] MCIVTA Back Issues and Manchester City Supporters’ home page is the unofficial Manchester City Supporters’ home page. Created in 1994, it is the longest running of the Manchester City related web sites. Back issues of MCIVTA are also hosted on the site.

[3] Club Web Site

The official club web site can be found at

[4] Supporters’ Clubs

Manchester City FC recognises three supporters’ clubs: The “Official Supporters Club” (; the “Centenary Supporters’ Association” ( and “The International Supporters’ Club” (

[5] Fans’ Committee

The Fans’ Committee operates as an interface between supporters and the club. It has its own website, containing info about forthcoming meetings as well as minutes from previous gatherings.

[6] City of Manchester Stadium Progress/Web Cam

The latest information regarding the progress of our new home can be found at

[7] Match Day Broadcasts

Live match commentaries and archives of games, reports and interviews can be found here: An alternate live commentary service, hosted by Yahoo, is located at: GMR Saturday Sport is also available live online between 1-3pm, and 4.45-6pm at

[8] Goals on the Net has available for download, usually within 24-48 hours of a game being played, all the goals from City’s matches.

[9] 01/02 Season Match Day Theme Tune

The music the teams run out to at Maine Road this season is “Nightmare”, by Brainbug, and is available on the Positiva label.

[10] Acknowledgements

Thanks go to John Arnold for providing the information regarding match day music and to Ian Bell for pointing out the alternate live match commentary service.

The views expressed in MCIVTA are entirely those of the subscribersand there is no intention to represent these opinions as being thoseof Manchester City Football Club, nor of any of the companies anduniversities by whom the subscribers are employed. It is not inany way whatsoever connected to the club or any other relatedorganisation and is simply a group of supporters using this mediumas a means of disseminating news and exchanging opinions.

[Valid3.2]Heidi Pickup,

Newsletter #767