Newsletter #69

We have several answers to my request for more info on Phelo’s
misdemeanours with some variance in the story t’would seem! We also have
another ‘Why Blue’ as well as plenty of discussion on just about
everything! Svenn has now opened voting for the ‘Player of the Year’. You
can vote either by accessing the
WWW Home Page or by sending Svenn an email
directly (
He will collate the votes and ensure we don’t have any outsiders
attempting to mess things up by multiple voting.

Lastly, there’s the embryonic MCIVTA T-shirt for which we are going to need
a minimum of 40 orders to keep costs down. Ordering however, comes later;
firstly we need designs so if anyone has an artistic leaning and wants to
try their hand at putting something together, please have a go.

Next game Crystal Palace away, Saturday 1st April 1995.


Further to the suggestion of a MCIVTA T-shirt, I’m happy to say that John
Shearer has kindly volunteered to coordinate T-shirt ordering. He has a
contact who does the artwork and produces T-shirts for a living and John
says that the quality is good. He is currently getting a price estimate as
well as finding out what postage & packing to the four points of the
compass will cost.

That’s one aspect, the other is the design. Svenn, Paul and I came up with
some suggestions and Svenn has done a great job of designing three
prototype T-shirts. These can be seen at the following address:

What we need now is for people to take a look and then submit further
designs or modifications to the three existing ones. Is there anyone out
there with graphic design experience? This would be best done by sending
GIFs to Svenn as he cannot spare the time to convert everyone’s ideas into
graphics. Alternatively, if sending a GIF isn’t possible, a finished design
could be posted to someone with a scanner. When we have accumulated all the
designs we can reasonably expect to get, we’ll have a vote on the
favourite. Naturally there are some caveats such as background colour and
permission to use the City crest (if desired) but these problems will
hopefully get solved as we go along.



Bayern Munich are the latest addition to the list of clubs interested
in Uwe Rösler. After their bid to sign Jürgen Klinsmann was turned
down by Spurs, Bayern are now interested in Uwe. However, City say
he’s not for sale and Uwe says he doesn’t want to move anyway.

The Mole


Peter Reid has been appointed manager of Sunderland, replacing
Mick Buxton. His position will be reviewed at the end of the
season. He claims to have turned down a number of previous
offers, saying “without wanting to sound big-headed, I was
waiting for a club like this.”

Niall Quinn put the Republic of Ireland into the lead in
yesterday’s European Championships qualifier against
Northern Ireland in Dublin; Iain Dowie scored a late equaliser,
the match ending 1-1.

Paul Howarth (


City and Spurs are in dispute over the date of their match at White Hart
Lane. Spurs, concerned about their FA Cup semi-final appearance, no longer
want to play the game on 11th April and haven’t agreed with any of the
dates put forward by City. Likewise, City won’t agree to any of the dates
suggested by Spurs. The FA are set to decide when the game will be played.

Paul Howarth (


Eric Cantona’s sentence has been reduced on appeal from 2 weeks’
prison to 120 hours community service, or playing nearly 2
seasons for City, depending on how you look at it 🙂

The Mole

Jeremy Poynton


Here’s the team details from the early edition of the MEN. As
suspected, Quinn (hamstring) and Ian Brightwell (Hip) have been ruled out, so
that leaves:

Coton: (from) Foster, Vonk, Curle, Kernaghan, David Brightwell, Gaudino,
Flitcroft, Summerbee, Walsh, Rösler, Beagrie, Griffiths, Hill,

Martin Ford (


According to a report in the Daily Express, Niall Quinn is
set to leave City in the summer in order to kick-start his
career and look after his future as an international. Speaking
in Dublin prior to the European Championships qualifier
against Northern Ireland, he said

“It’s great coming to Dublin for matches like this because
I can forget all about what is happening at club level.”

The Express reckons there’ll be a scramble to acquire the
services of the 2m-rated Irishman.

Paul Howarth (


This whole issue of Heysel – sorry, Hillsborough – is doing my head in.
Jeremy (and countless other people) seem to be quite willing to lay the
blame at the feet of the West Yorks. Police, saying that they shouldn’t
have opened the gates, blah blah blah and a disaster could have been

The thing is it’s piss easy to be wise after the event. Sure, it was a
terrible day that ought never to have happened, I’m not disputing that.
My point is, suppose the police had not opened the gates and people had
died in the crush outside – what then? People would have still accused
the police by saying the gates should have been opened. Don’t tell me it
wouldn’t have happened either, because I’m pretty damn sure it would have.
The police were in a no win situation and, I’m sure did what they thought
was right on the day.

Jim Needham (


Now that the transfer deadline has passed, what did Frannie and BH do
with Niall? I saw his goal and several near-goals (with perfect
service on one header from the rag Dennis Irwin) in yesterday’s
Ireland-Northern Ireland Euro ’96 match. Again, I can only hope that
Quinn will remain on hand during the possible relegation battle. There
are very few centre-forwards I have seen anywhere with his ability to
control the ball in the box (Dennis Bergkamp and Jostein Flo of Norway
come to mind). Also, I haven’t seen Lomas in the Man City line-up
lately. Does he still play for Northern Ireland?

Eric Floyd (

Lomas has a broken leg but a return is perhaps possible before the end of
the season [Ashley]


  1. On the Uwe Rösler front, I read in the paper today that BH has turned
    down some determined enquiries from Bayern Munich. It seems they have
    been impressed by his strike record with City, and having been rebuffed
    by Spurs’ Jürgen Klinsmann, they were hoping to tempt Uwe back to
    Deutschland. Fortunately for us, BH has told them that Uwe just ain’t
    for sale, partly because the club won’t let him go and partly because
    Uwe doesn’t want to leave anyway. With him being initially valued at 2
    million, I reckon he must be worth at least 3.5 million now, and I
    wonder what BH will do if the Krauts come in with a big money offer?
    Interestingly enough, I read recently that Uwe had a trial with
    Middlesbrough before he came to Maine Road but luckily for us he was
    sent home without getting a game. If he keeps up his scoring form he
    should be knocking on the door of the German national side; as I live in
    South Wales, and Germany are in the same European Championship
    qualifying group as Wales, for me it would be great to see Uwe knock a
    couple past Dibs in the Wales – Germany match at Cardiff in October
    this year (OK, I’ll get real, Southall then!).
  2. On the continental front, I reckon this is where the
    Blues must look for good players; mainly because of the over-priced
    English market (in fact I think the current England side will struggle
    against a quality overseas team; I personally get more excited over the
    rugby team’s progress than the 11 man team). For example, until he was
    injured I reckon that De Wolf of Wolves would have suited us down to the
    ground; he is an international ‘hard-man’ defender who would do well
    alongside Curley-Wurley, plus he has reasonable mobility which is
    unusual for a big defender. City could have had a good deal buying him.
    Although Wolves are on the up, I’m sure he would have preferred a
    Premiership club, and weren’t Wolves interested in Vonk before finally
    getting De Wolf, to me a better all round player than Vonk? Now that
    he’s injured I don’t feel too bad that we didn’t go in for him. Also,
    what about that Ivanov of Bulgaria? Although I believe he recently
    flunked on trial with Coventry, is he any good – he must be decent if
    he played in the 4th best team in the world, and buying him from a
    Swiss club shouldn’t cost the earth? Someone mentioned a Romanian who
    marked Shearer well in the recent game with England; to me the
    Romanians on top form were the only team who could have been a match
    for Brazil at USA ’94 – the eastern block countries do have a
    knack of producing some very talented players.

Ian Thompson (


I couldn’t agree more with Jeremy Poynton’s piece on the demise of the
terraces and the Taylor report, which has been the main reason for a lack
of atmosphere at many grounds including City (no it’s not just the
results). The decision to remove the terraces was a political decision
that had nothing to do with the safety of fans, and personally I do not
believe that fans are any safer now than they were pre-Hillsborough. A
classic example of this is Sheffield United’s new away stand, with the
lower stand having an exit approximately 5 feet wide for thousands of fans
to get through. Maybe if the people concerned had been consulted, a better
solution would have been reached but maybe that’s too much to ask of the
Government… to be democratic.

Adam Houghton (


Kevin’s account of his wife’s quotes at Maine Road reminded
me of a girl who used to sit in front of me in the North Stand.
She was part of a family group, her father being known to us as
“Get a grip”, after his favourite saying, “Get a grip City!”
Anyway, one afternoon she was getting particularly annoyed with
the referee and you could see the frustration building as her face
nearly turned purple. One more incident caused her to snap, but
clearly coming from a “nice” background, she couldn’t bring
herself to abuse the referee in the time-honoured, obscene fashion
(well, not in front of her father, anyway), so she shouted out:
“Referee! You’re so wet …. you’re a lettuce!” I nearly fell off my
seat laughing…

Paul Howarth (


I lived in Sheffield at the time of the disaster, and knew someone who was a
nurse at the hospital where many of the injured were being treated. One day
she was salking towards the lift (having finished her shift) when she saw
Thatcher and her hangers-on moving towards the ward where the injured were
being treated, with the media in hot pursuit. My friend noticed that Mrs T
was plastered with makeup, far too much on. The reason became clear when she
watched the news that night: “Mrs Thatcher, looking pale and drawn at the
sight of the injured…”
The old b*****d had put the makeup on to achieve
that ‘pale and drawn’ look.

Combat 18: has anyone like this started tagging on to City in any way?

Dave Bradbury (


I passed a shop selling some City T-Shirts in Tib Street when I was back in
Manchester a week or two back, but didn’t have the time to stop and buy
any. It’s just near the door to Debenhams on the corner of Market Street
and Tib Street. This was on a Saturday so I don’t know if it’s open any
other days. From its size it looks like an ex-cigarette kiosk. A quick
ASCII map follows. Sorry I can’t remember the name of the new hotels and
stores, so I have used the old names.

                                  | T  |
        DDD = doors               | i  |Old C&As
        *   = shop                | b  +------
                                  |    Back Piccadilly
                                  | S  +------
           Debenham's             | t  |
                                  |    * T-Shirt Shop
                                  |    |         Old Littlewood's
       ---------DDD-------------DDD    +--------------
        Market Street
              Metrolink Platform
       -----------DDD------------DDD-+   +---
                                     |   |       Bus Station
             Lewis's                 |   |    |

Kevin Hopkins (pkh@Cs.Nott.AC.UK)


I seldom post to the group any more, as the folks in the U.K. know so
much more than I. Are we really up to 212 people? That’s quite impressive,
as I know the much older Spurs list just went over 200 around the holidays.
I was on the Spurs list for ages, because City didn’t have one, and because the
quality of the footy-chat was first rate. I got to meet up with a bunch of
them at the Railway Tavern (right next to the WHL BR stop) prior to their
match with Crystal Palace. I could hardly have been treated any better,
having people (not list members, but just hard-core Spurs fans, who knew I
was a City fan, but didn’t care because I hated Arsenal, and had given up my
Christmas to come and watch football overseas) buy me pints until I could barely
make it back to High Street Kensington. I was lucky enough to run into
Shaggy (Palace fan, and probably the most lucid of the frequent posters to, who is as advertised – long leather coat, smoking silk
cuts, etc. Hope you get to meet up before the match on Saturday. If you see him,
please tell him that I say hello.

On an amusing note, I watched the RAGS/QPR FA cup match for just a few
seconds the other night. I had watched all of the other quarter-final matches
start to finish, but had no interest in watching Trafford United do anything. In
the approximately two minutes that I watched, there was an obvious foul by
Bruce on Ferdinand at the edge of the area, and an obvious hand-ball by Sharpe in
the area, neither of which was given. We’d have a lot more than that damn
blue carpet in the trophy room too if we had the three extra players out
there every match like they do!

Hope all is well, and that this trip to Selhurst Park is a lot better
than the last.

Bob Kelley (

For more recent subscribers, I should point out that Bob has been with the
list from the earliest days [Ashley]


Following on from people’s recollections of City songs, just a topical one
I heard a few years ago. I once went watching City play at Derby just after
Tommy Docherty was fired from the Rags. The Doc walked out with the Derby
players to a crescendo of “Who’s up Mary Brown” – the tune of “knees up Mother Brown”. From
there they went on to the tune of “He’s here he there he’s every*****
, “He shot he cum, all over Mary’s bum, Tommy Doc, Tommy Doc.”
He who laughs last ,laughs longest – Derby won 2-1.

Kevin Duckworth (

I remember this well as I was at the same match. For the benefit of younger
Blues I should perhaps point out that Tommy Docherty was fired from the
Swamp (cost themm dearly) for having an affair with the wife of the Man. Utd.
physio, a lady called Mary Brown. If memory serves me correctly, he
eventually married her and they lived up near me in Charlesworth (Glossop)
for some time, they may still live there? This song was also the cause of
one of The Doc’s famous court cases after a fight with some Blues on a train
in Stockport. [Ashley]


> If anyone is thinking of going to the Palarse game and has not yet got a
> ticket, Russ Jenkins has a spare one which he will 'sell-on' at a discount
> to gate-prices.
> Please contact Russ direct

Just remember not to let any money change hands in public near the
ground – this is now illegal regardless of the sum involved. You know
it makes sense …

This is another spin-off of the Taylor report; whilst being I guess a
laudable attempt to crack down on touts, it has also had the above
effect – I know there has been at least one case of someone being
nobbled for passing on a spare ticket at cost price.

Jeremy Poynton ( or


My first memory is the ’81 Cup Final. I was six at the time and found it
hard to understand why my Dad was getting so worked up! Not really
understanding what all the fuss was about. I was taken to the league
rematch early the following season. It was one of Trevor Francis’ first
games for us and I think Spurs won 1-0.

Over the next 2 or 3 seasons, I would be taken to 3 or 4 games a season and
invariably see City lose! However, I was starting to understand and get
involved, despite never seeing them win for about 4 years. Then I saw

The infamous last game against Luton is usually remembered for the Pleat
celebrations. My memory is of a game we should have won easily (is this
true?) and then Rady Bloody Antic scored with little time left. The
relegation put me off going the next season unless I thought it would be a
good game that we might win.

The only game I went to that season was against Newcastle. This was by far
the best side in the division. They had Keegan, Beardsley and Waddle. We had
… erm … well … can’t remember! Shows what state the club was in.

We won promotion the next season, then were back 2 years later. Of this
period, my memories are few. One is of missing a last minute equaliser
against Birmingham after leaving a dire performance early. Oh, and the Full
Members’ Cup Final at Wembley.

What a comeback that almost was. I was due to have my tonsils removed a few
days before the game but my parents cancelled the op so I could go. Anyway
the game is in my memory for two reasons, the comeback and the trouble.
The trouble at this game was my first experience of any sort of football
violance. It started when some Chelsea ‘fans’ were found in our end (just
to the left of where I was sat). There was some minor fighting and then the
police moved in and moved them to the other end. Then on the way home, a
brick was thrown through a window of the coach in front of us. How bad, in
reality, this was, I don’t know. I just remember it as the first (and so
far only, thankfully) time I have been afraid for my safety at a City game.

Anyway, on to the game. 1-0 up (Steve Kinsey), 5-1 down. Then the last ten
minutes. We somehow managed to get it back to 5-4. I think there was an own
goal and a penalty in there, but whatever, it was almost a brilliant
comeback but not quite.

During our first season back in the second division, I remember wanting to
go to the Huddersfield game, but wasn’t allowed (a legacy of Wembley; my
dad wouldn’t let me go without an adult). Listening to the game on the
radio that afternoon, I was amazed when we were 4-0 up at half time. It
won’t last said my dad – we won 10-1. I still remind him of that when he
doesn’t want to go to a game I’m going to!

After getting back into the First Division we struggled for a while (and still
do!!). My next memory is perhaps my favourite. The Niall Quinn vs. Derby County
game. It was a game Derby had to win to have a chance of staying up. We took an early lead through Quinn.
Then Saunders broke through at the Platt Lane end. Coton brought him down;
penalty and Coton sent off. The North Stand (where I was) was up in
arms, after all, what could we see from the other end? Anyway, Quinn goes
in goal and saves the penalty. What joy! I can’t remember such a swing in
atmosphere. One minute calm, then very hostile, then celebratory. We went
on to win 2-1. Quinn was a hero.

Recently, I have been exiled in Birmingham for much of the year. As a
student, I don’t get to see many games but try to stay in touch. Hopefully,
I’ll get to
see the Liverpool game and perhaps Villa away (if a date is finally set in
term time).

David Lamb (


Terry was up for assault last season after he and his girlfriend attacked
some United fan and his girlfriend, probably after much p**s-taking about
the derby. Not that provocation is any sort of excuse, mind…

Can’t remember what the sentence was, but he didn’t spend any time in jail
as far as I remember, so he probably isn’t eligible for the HMP squad.
Tony Adams and Mickey Quinn are two qualified candidates though!

Paul Howarth (


I’m not sure if this is the same incident as mentioned by demented red, but
the Pit Bull was given a suspended sentence (or bound over to keep the
peace – not sure) for trying to poke out a United fan’s eyes during a
Christmas party. Apparently the Rag in question was a waiter who picked
the wrong person to take the piss out off.

If you can’t defend against them… poke their eyes out!

Adam Houghton (


Flixton Red is referring to an incident that occurred at the City
Xmas party in the Copthorne Hotel a couple of years ago when Terry
had a “disagreement” with one of the hotel guests. Can’t remember the full
details about what followed, maybe someone else will elaborate.

Chris Williams (


From what I recall, the rumour was that a Rag was mouthing off at him
at the above hostelry; it was also suggested that the colour of his
skin came into the conversation. Phelo – not surprisingly – took
umbrage at this and proceeded to rearrange various of his features.
I know he went to court, but don’t know what the outcome was – obviously
he didn’t go down, but I don’t know whether he got a suspended sentence,
was fined, or congratulated by the beak.

“We are all coloured, or you wouldn’t be able to see us.”

Captain Beefheart.

Jeremy Poynton ( or


Said incident occurred a couple of xmas’s ago when a few of our boys
were partaking of their favourite pastime – drinking, at an hotel
in Salford Quays. Things were getting a bit lively and the language
rather colourful when an unsuspecting chap, out for a quiet night with
his wife, asked the boys to tone down their conversation. Utilizing all
the diplomatic skills gleaned from his Salford upbringing, our Terry
practically put his fingers into the guys eye sockets and lifted him up
off the floor, obviously taking exception to an unreasonable request.
The result of this episode was fortunately, given current trends, only a
fine and Terry was free to appear on the Songs of Praise show that was
done from the Swamp some time later!

Paul Monaghan (


In MCIVTA 68 Ashley mentioned that he wondered what escapade Mr T Phelan
got up to in the Copthorne Hotel. I heard that he got 200 hours community
service for glassing someone when he was tanked up, so I presume that’s
what Flixton Red was alluding to. When there was paper talk of a
European club buying him over the summer, people were commenting on the
balance of the 200 hours being a problem.

Kevin Hopkins (pkh@Cs.Nott.AC.UK)


Ashley Hevicon might try the Evening News for a good picture of the
Kippax. Just before it was demolished they published an aerial view
of Maine Road which could be bought from them. I remember it was quite
pricey. Anyway, they might have some left or he could even try
their picture library.

Chris Williams (


Re Kevin Duckworth’s piece in MCIVTA 68:

> ...
> The game began
> and within 10 minutes, the tension was too much to bear and, when Ian
> Brightwell (?) passed the ball into the path of Marshall who scored for
> Ipswich, she was hooked as a City fan- she has always felt sorry for the
> underdog. By the final whistle I was battered and bruised as she showed her
> enthusiasm. Her lasting impressions on the game were Rocastle has a nice
> bum. Phelan is as fast as F***, and Lomas is a sweetheart.

The back pass was by Garry Flitcroft; you must have had a nice view of
Rocastle’s “Brazilian” skills that set up Griffiths’ equaliser?

Paul Howarth (


The jokes in MVIVTA 68 remind me of an ad that appeared
in the classifieds section of the M(U)EN a year or two ago.
Must have been from a Rag as from memory it read something
like :-

For Sale:

Trophy cabinet

Excellent condition, Hardly used

5 pounds

Contact, The Secretary, MCFC, Maine Rd.

You may have come across this before; wonder if they got a buyer?

Mark Denton (


The latest issue of Viz contains the following tip:

Man. Utd fans. Don’t waste your money on yet another replica team strip.
Simply strap a large plastic penis to your head. It will ten be perfectly
obvious to everybody which team you support.

Mike Brierley (


Thanks to David (x2), Paul (x2), Andy, Jim, Mark, Chris, Jeremy, The Mole, Bob, Kevin (x2), Eric, Mike, Ian & Martin.


The views expressed in MCIVTA are entirely those of the subscribers
and there is no intention to represent these opinions as being those
of Manchester City Football Club, nor of any of the companies and
universities by whom the subscribers are employed. It is not in
any way whatsoever connected to the club or any other related
organisation and is simply a group of supporters using this medium
as a means of disseminating news and exchanging opinions.

Ashley Birch,

Newsletter #69