Newsletter #1131

Some good opinion tonight on the marketing of MCFC, finances, transfers and news on the Thailand tournament.

We’ve also some humour and the usual requests.

Just three days to go until the new season’s fixtures are published at 10.00am on Thursday.

Next game: TBA


Living here you never used to see City shirts on sale in the shops, not until recently when I have seen a few of the big stores displaying them.

They are lined up on the hangers next to the usual Arsenal, Liverpool, Man U, and Chelsea.

Taking a closer look at the other shirts and comparing them with ours, I found a marketing flaw.

Nowhere on the shirt does it say Manchester City F.C.

Yet when you take a look at the other shirts mentioned, the name of the club is part of the badge: we just have MCFC on ours.

That’s fine if you know who MCFC are, if you are a normal French kid looking for a shirt, you can see the shirts on sale are those of Arsenal, Liverpool, Manchester United, Chelsea and MCFC.

I honestly don’t think many kids in Europe know who MCFC are; what I do know is that those same kids have heard of Manchester City F.C.

And if they are anything like us they will buy anything that is opposite to what the masses buy.

United shirts are going to be on sale all over the states soon; that’s a great opportunity for City to benefit just like the New York Metz did in England: no one had heard of them till the Yankees started marketing the baseball caps and jackets in the 80s.

I’m not for bringing the old badge back but it would be nice to see the words Manchester City F.C. displayed on the new one.

Anyway can someone give the bloke who does badges a shout and let him know where he’s gone wrong?

Andy Webb – France <Charlesalexhols(at)>


Reading the two opinions “Doing the Math” and “Lack of Direction” in MCIVTA 1130, I found myself jump from the nod of agreement to a sigh of despair, which I guess is why MCIVTA is compulsive reading.

I too wonder why with £45 million of our debt structured over 15-25 years we have no money to spend. Since the last accounts Anelka was sold for £7 million, wages saved on Bosvelt, Macca and Macken (I suspect the fee is made up of saved wages and add-ons the like of which we’ve read this week for Etuhu and Berkovic) £10 million made on the corporate, £14 million in season ticket sales, and £4 million extra merit/Sky money, and we’re broke!

We were paying wages around £38 million per year in the recently released figures; it must be similar for next year but turnover continues to rise… but we’re broke! Are there any clever folk out there who can explain it?

Now the reason we are in £62 million of debt is not because Wardle gave clueless Keegan an open cheque book, it is largely because we have a new ground that required over £25 million of work and Bernstein got the loan against future tickets, which was for Keegan to ensure the yo-yo days stopped. They did! Rather than list the bad buys (we all know who they were and are), look at the revenue our extended stay has created and the conclusion is simple: Keegan did a good job following on work started by Royle and should always be welcome and thanked.

Last season ended with me optimistic but when Keegan left I wrote that we should give Pearce the job solely because he was best equipped to keep us up as he knows the players best. My expectations quickly rose but are now beginning to fall again. If we spend no money again it really is down to just how good the young ‘uns are and whether Pearce can drag the form of Sinclair, Mills etc. to the levels he achieved last year with Reyna in those last 9 games.

Alistair Shaw <shawalistair(at)>


The owner of the Kansas City Chiefs, Clark Hunt, during an interview on radio, has said that many National Football League owners are watching with interest what is happening with Malcolm Glazer and his takeover of the other club across Manchester. Sounds that if Glazer is successful others might follow.

The owners of the NFL clubs are all multi millionaires, some who already own other sports teams, such as basketball, or hockey teams, and now that the hockey league are having problems, no games this season, the season has been wiped out because of conflicts between owners and unions, they might be looking for something new?

If someone came in for City and it helped the club, right now it’s my guess most of us City fans would be pleased, but don’t hold your breath that this will happen soon.

Ernie Barrow <britcityblue(at)>


Am I the only one gobsmacked that City/Keegan allowed for a new training facility to be built at Carrington without “a dedicated video room where the squad could assemble and prepare as professionally as possible”?

Another reason I’m glad his slapdash professionalism has been replaced. Maybe that’s why we had no real tactics – because we never sat as a team and examined the opposition’s strengths and weaknesses.

Also I agree with John Pearson’s comments that the next season is very important one for City financial-wise. I have felt unhappy with the direction of the club ever since Bernstein was unfairly ousted for standing up to Keegan’s demands.

I just hope Wardle doesn’t have to sell the family silver in SWP & Distin.

Adrian Howarth <adrianhowarth(at)>


Are we nuts?

Just read on the BBC that we are considering an offer of £6 million for Distin. Why?

His partnership with Dunnie was one of the reasons that we finished 12 places above the relegation zone. Isn’t it £500,000 a place?

The silk and steel combination, plus Distin’s improving captaincy, would suggest that we would be nuts to sell such an influential player.

Just to reiterate, it was our good defence that got us the places!

City til I die, Graham Lord <gooch(at)>


The Internet has changed the way we get our information about our favourite football club. When I first moved out to Virginia there was no Internet, no Fox Soccer Channel, no Sky Sports News and no Satellite TV.

My information came from a subscription to the Manchester Evening News (Pink Edition), and my trusted Philips shortwave radio. Every Saturday without fail it would be on for the BBC Saturday afternoon sports, and always the 2nd half of one of the games being played that day. Then the results of the day would start to come in.

Most days my reception would be reasonable, but sometimes there would be atmospherics and I would miss that all-important City score. Friends from the Manchester area would send me the occasional newspaper cuttings of special news about City (they still do).

Today, because of the Internet, I have more information about City than if I had lived in Manchester in the old days.

There are so many sites to explore for information, the trouble being that some media sites on a slow day will make up some speculation story, and some more than others are famous for this, so I leave it to the best, being the Official MCFC web site, the BBC sports web site, and of course MCIVTA, which has some of the best reports from Don Barrie who does an excellent job in keeping us exiles worldwide, and supporters in the UK informed.

During the season many supporters who go to the games give us their reports in MCIVTA: much appreciated, please do not stop next season.

Not all the games will be shown on TV, but at MCFCTV with a subscription the radio commentary of every game can be heard clearly.

Must not forget Heidi who has been doing a excellent job of editing MCIVTA. I keep her working hard at times, she slaps my wrist and says don’t do that again, of course I do, but not intentionally I must add.

I close in saying to everyone at MCIVTA, thanks for doing a great job, keep it up, you are our main lifeline to MCFC.

[Thanks Ernie, only a virtual slap, you men are hard work sometimes! – Ed]

Ernie Barrow <britcityblue(at)>


If Birmingham supporters can use the power of the Internet to keep Lee Bowyer out, then isn’t it about time that we used the emails and Internet to keep our very own SWP (we could call it S.O.S.) Save our Shaun.

I mean after all, he is going to be on fire next season, isn’t he?

Steve <salty12(at)>


I live in Bangkok and can advise that nothing as yet has been finalized.

Teams will be City, Everton, Bolton & Thailand. Games will be on Wednesday 20th and Saturday 23rd July at the Rajamangla stadium in Bangkok.

Check out the postings copied below from the Manchester Evening News site“City Thai Up Trip with Toffees” of about 11 May:

There has been nothing new in the Thai newspapers for some weeks now.

Peter Carlisle <peter(at)>


In answer to Chris Long about the games in Bangkok, the games are on 20th and 23rd July at the Rajamangala stadium. Me and a mate are also making the trip from Perth, West Oz for the games and want to know if any fellow Blues want to meet up pre match.

We’re staying at the Baiyoke Sky hotel so if anyone else is, we’ll see you there.


John Edwards <mancity2(at)>


I know, we shouldn’t mock, but for those of you who haven’t yet come across this site, it is well worth a look.

Sent in by:
Steve Roughsedge <Roughsedge(at)>
William Hardman <ha(at)>


I am after The “Utd not for Sale, My @rse” T-shirts, that some were wearing at the last game vs. Boro. Does anybody know where to get hold of them?

Dave K <Arfurblue(at)>


First of all, an apology that the stats of some of the latter matches of last season were not updated to the site as quickly as normal. This was due to the slow but terminal failure of my PC from a virus. The good news is the newly-purchased laptop is working well, so I’m back to normal.

I am looking for any info on a player named “Kelly” who was an unused sub for City on March 5th 1988. Basic info such as first name(s), date and place of birth would be useful.

I’m pleased to announce that a major update of the line-ups on has just been completed, whereby all the line-ups since 1965 (except 23) have been refreshed with the missing unused substitutes. A big thanks goes to Dennis Chapman for his efforts in trawling through his manual records to provide much missing information, which I have now keyed in and pasted onto the site. In order to complete the task, I need the info on these 23 matches. Can you help or know somebody who can? If not, you may see me in Central Library in the near future, scouring through the newspapers of the day.

The games are all European games apart from 2:

9/9/1965 – abandoned league game vs. Norwich (1-1) but who was the unused sub?
17/9/1969 – Athletic Club de Bilbao away (3-3) – No subs used. How many subs listed, and their names?
1/10/1969 – Athletic Club de Bilbao home (3-0) – No subs used. How many subs listed, and their names?
12/11/69 – Lierse SK away (3-0) – Heslop used, but how many other subs listed, and their names?
26/11/69 – Lierse SK home (5-0) – Towers used, but how many other subs listed, and their names?
4/3/70 – Academica de Coimbra away (0-0) – Heslop used, but how many other subs listed, and their names?
18/3/70 – Academica de Coimbra home (1-0) – Towers and Glennon used, but how many other subs listed, and their names?
1/4/70 – Schalke 04 away (0-1) – No subs used. How many subs listed, and their names?
15/4/70 – Schalke 04 home (5-1) – Heslop and Carrodus used, but how many other subs listed, and their names?
29/4/1970 – Gornik (Final in Vienna) (2-1) – Bowyer used, but how many other subs listed, and their names?
16/9/1970 – Linfield home (1-0) – No subs used. How many subs listed, and their names?
31/3/1971 – Gornik (Copenhagen) (3-1) – Corrigan, Bowyer, Brennan and Mellor listed as unused subs, but was there a 5th unused sub?
18/1/1972 – Middlesbrough (League Cup) (0-1) – No subs used. How many subs listed, and their names (believe only one sub allowed at the time)?
14/9/1977 – Widzew Lodz home (2-2) – Royle used, but how many other subs listed, and their names?
28/9/1977 – Widzew Lodz away (0-0) – Clements used, but how many other subs listed, and their names?
13/9/1978 – Twente Enschede away (1-1) – Booth listed as unused, but were there any other unused subs?
27/9/1978 – Twente Enschede home (3-2) – Bell listed as used sub, but how many other subs listed, and their names?
18/10/1978 – Standard Liege home (4-0) – Keegan listed as used sub, but how many other subs listed, and their names?

1/11/1978 – Standard Liege away (0-2) – No subs used. How many subs listed,and their names?
23/11/1978 – AC Milan away (2-2) – Keegan listed as used sub, but how manyother subs listed, and their names?
6/12/1978 – AC Milan home (3-0) – No subs used. How many subs listed, andtheir names?
7/3/1979 – Borussia Mönchengladbach home (1-1) – No subs used. How manysubs listed, and their names?
20/3/1979 – Borussia Mönchengladbach away (1-3) – Deyna listed as usedsub, but how many other subs listed, and their names?

Steve Kay <steve(at)>

MCIVTA FAQ [v0405.02]

[1] MCIVTA Addresses

Articles (Heidi Pickup)          :
News/rumour (Don Barrie)         :
Subscriptions (Madeleine Hawkins):
Technical problems (Paul)        :
FAQ (David Warburton)            :

[2] What are MCIVTA’s publishing deadlines?

Deadlines for issues are nominally 6pm, Monday and Thursday evenings bu email. Unfortunately we cannot accept email attachments.

[3] MCIVTA Back Issues and Manchester City Supporters’ home page is the unofficial Manchester City Supporters’ home page. Created in 1994, it is the longest running of the Manchester City related web sites. Back issues of MCIVTA are also hosted on the site.

[4] What is the club’s official web site?

The official club web site can be found at

[5] What supporters’ clubs are there?

Manchester City FC recognises three supporters’ clubs: The “Official Supporters Club” (; the “Centenary Supporters’ Association” ( and “The International Supporters’ Club” (

[6] Where can I find out about the fans’ committee?

The Fans’ Committee operates as an interface between supporters and the club. The Fans’ Committee has been relaunched as “Points of Blue”. It has appeared on the club website as a minor entry under “Fans Zone”.

[7] What match day broadcasts are available on the web?

The GMR pre and post match phone-in is available on the web at

Live match commentaries and archives of games, reports and interviews can be found at

[8] Where can I find out if City are live on satellite TV? provides a listing of Premiership games being shown on UK domestic and foreign satellite channels. Useful sites for North American viewers are,, and

[9] Do we have a Usenet newsgroup?

Yes we do: is our home on usenet. If you are not familiar with usenet, a basic explanation is available here:,289893,sid9_gci213262,00.html

[10] Do any squad members have their own web pages?

There are a number available and direct links can be found at

[11] Can I buy shares in the club?

Yes you can: Shares in Manchester City PLC are traded on OFEX. The latest prices can be on found the OFEX web site (registration required) or in the business section of the Manchester Evening News.

[12] Where can I find match statistics?

Statistics for the current season are available from the club site, but for a more in-depth analysis try

[13] Where can I find a list of City-related websites?

Try Wookie’s Lair:

The views expressed in MCIVTA are entirely those of the subscribersand there is no intention to represent these opinions as being thoseof Manchester City Football Club, nor of any of the companies anduniversities by whom the subscribers are employed. It is not inany way whatsoever connected to the club or any other relatedorganisation and is simply a group of supporters using this mediumas a means of disseminating news and exchanging opinions.

[Valid3.2]Heidi Pickup,

Newsletter #1131